Re: systemd replacement or standardization

[Jean Louis]

* address@hidden <address@hidden> [2019-10-16 01:56]:
> > In my opinion Gnome shall remain independent of the supervisor type.
> >
> I wasn't talking about bringing GNOME under control of GNU. I am talking 
> about integrating with GNU technology. 
> Build system, Init, service manager and so on. When and if they are
> developed.

It is already integrated in various free software distributions. Which
one are you using?

Is it not integrated in yours?

> > On Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre there is no systemd, and there is still
> > Gnome, it works fine.
> >
> Sure it works fine. But that wasn't the point I was making. How much effort 
> does it take for GNOME to work fine if you don't have Systemd?
> In Gentoo they had a hell of a time to make it work without Systemd
> and Guix doesn't have the latest version exactly yet.

I understand it is about cooperation between communities, one
community is tending to support only systemd.

> > The time of GNU as sole operating system is already for decades
> > over. The idea of Dr. Richard Stallman to build a new free software
> > operating system was realized practically for many people back in time
> > when somebody used Linux kernel and distributed first GNU distribution
> > with it. Then when GNU Hurd was not as practical and usable, Linux
> > within GNU became practical and usable.
> >
> > Now there are many various GNU distributions, each can decide which
> > software to use. The distinction became blurry.
> >
> I think that points to a larger problem. As of right now we have a
> lot of alternatives to various packages that are getting
> traction. Nobody is eager to join the GNU project. Person or
> project.

I see it as unfolded flower. Richard Stallman envisioned GNU operating
system as a single leaf, it unfolded into bush of flowers. There are
now many free software political groups promoting free software
philosophy and many various GNU versions of free operating system.

It changed over time, there is not one uniqu GNU alone for
itself, system.

Maybe some recruitment is necessary to hire new software packages and
to basically ask for new GNU involved projects, that is up to GNU and
FSF to invite people for those software packages that are necessary
for future, like for example replacements for Skype and similar.

> I have been doing some reading on GNU the last few days. Seeing the
> packages. Going through mailing lists. Outside of GUIX and their
> packages and GIMP there aren't that many active projects.

Then I am sorry I do not know what you mean, for me the statement
above is way too general.

Look:
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/gnu-spotlight-with-mike-gerwitz-14-new-gnu-releases-in-september

> For some reason we can't attract contributors.

Instead of general statement, why not say which software requires
contributors in particular?

> Now I have seen from Linux forums (Phoronix, Gentoo) that people are
> trying to move away from GNU. Or they don't even know it exists.

Could you please give specific link instead of making it general
statement?

You are also free to introduce "Linux" forum users to what free
software philosophy really is, as many users do not know about it. 

> To keep it short I don't think that other people have better tech
> necessarily.

Question is not what is better, but if users are given rights as
envisioned by free software philosophy. 

> I think GNU doesn't have contributors. And can't attract new
> ones. And that is not because people are not coders or they don't
> want Free Software.

Well that sounds to me as depressive useless statement. How many GNU
mailing lists are you subscribed to?

> > It is in most free software distributions already. Did you try it?
> >
> You mean GNOME right? GNOME has removed GNU from the name since a long time 
> now.
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2010-April/msg00050.html 
> <https://mail.gnome.org/archives/marketing-list/2010-April/msg00050.html>
> I have used seemed pleasant to use, good tech.

OK fine, but name or not name it is free software.

Richard Stallman have burried few seeds, and he is still placing it
all over the world, and now we have bushes of flowers everywhere and
plants growing in gardens, and each flower is free to smell and have
various flavours.

> The community when I started getting involved with GNOME pushed me
> away. I don't like the culture.

I am sorry, but generalized statement are not useful, they give
appearance of negativity. When lacking facts generalized statements
create Fear, Uncertainty and Doubts = FUD. That does not help.

If you have some particular constructive proposal, that would be good
to propose.

> > Which one do you use?
> >
> I am starting to get involved in KDE. After I read about their community and 
> their Guidelines, I liked the culture. 
> I actually proposed a KDE goal this year and it was picked as a focused. 
> They seem much more open to peoples need and recieving feedback.

Which free software operating system distribution do you use?

KDE is just desktop environment. I have that also on Hyperbola
GNU/Linux-libre. Free software distributions are here:
https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

That is excellent that you have proposed KDE goal for this year and it
was picked as one. Keep doing so.

I do not know about your experiences with "they seem much more open to
peoples need and receiving feedback" -- as this gives appearance of
something bad, but without saying specifics what is bad, for me who
has precise feeling for specifics versus generalizations, it means
nothing.

May I give specifics from my side? Sometimes I have proposed some
changes in Emacs, and several people have welcome such changes, I have
got a feeling of community in Emacs being open to people's need and I
was receiving feedback.

Jean