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Re: Shared application menu

From: Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf
Subject: Re: Shared application menu
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:49:00 +0200

On 08.10.2003 17:34:50 Banlu Kemiyatorn wrote:
>Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:
>>As for NSToolBar:
>>This is a per window thing, that means an application may sport 
>>kind of windows of which each kind can have it's personal toolbar. (An
>>example that comes to my mind is Camino which has different toolbars for
>>it's browser and download windows).
>I know that it is a per window thing but we cannot focus 2 windows (or
>can we?). My idea
>was changing the top screen tool bar everytime a window is focused.
>Leaving it in blank
>if that window doesn't have a tool bar. (The status bar items always be
>shown on the right side)

I did not know the concept of changing toolbars.

>>A toolbar on the top of the screen implies global validity of the 
>>items. Since it is done different from that in Mac OS X it would create
>>another hurdle for porting applications.
> From the current usage of NSToolBar in MacOSX, what is the example of
>hurdle that
>would be possible according to my approach? 

If the toolbar is changing there are any porting troubles any more ;-)

>The only problem I can see
>is that you
>can't click the tool bar item if you didn't focus the window first. Thus
>I think that's a
>counter-intuitive feature.

Sadly it is different. I remember that I wanted to move my Mail.app 
mainwindow to the front by clicking in the only spot of it that was not 
covered by other windows: the delete button was there - so I accidently 
deleted a mail this way without noticing it. The next day I discovered 
this mail in the trash... 

>>Btw. you might think it is done like you propose in MS Windows for
>>instance. That is only half way true: Even MS Word and MS Excel differ 
>>the way they handle this. MS Word has a toolbar at the top of each 
>>like in Mac OS X but MS Excel has a master window with a toolbar that
>>contains the document windows. Such an inconsistency is worse than any
>>other consistent way to do this. MS Windows should not be a role model 
>user interfaces (like for KDE or GNOME).
>I have no idea about Windows interface since I never use it. 

Usually I also wouldn't use it. But I have to. My boss forces me to. He 
said: "You'll be more productive if you use Windows" You might guess if 
that is true...

>Is that
>related to the per-window
>issue mentioned above?

Some MS Windows apps have a toolbar per window, some have a toolbar per 
application (which is also a window on Windows). The first kind of apps 
mostly are true multi window apps, the second kind has a window that 
contains windows (which you can scroll out of sight: very anoying and 
stupid). And I guess there might be apps that behave completely different. 
All in all Windows is VERY inconsistent and confusing. I always wonder 
people use it at free will...

>>>4) the edge of screen should be used to
>>>increase productivity in a way.
>>This works only if the buttons etc. really reach to the edge of the 
>>and are not - like it is done in the MS Windows taskbar - one or two
>>pixels away from it. I think MS did this because it looks better this 
>>- and it really does. Having some buttons sitting at the very top of the
>>screen would look really clumpsy IMHO. And as you can tell from many
>>requests and a lot of different projects on the web not only the feel 
>>also the look is important to most users.
>Hmmm. Then why putting an icon of NSToolBar 2 pixels away from the edge
>of the screen?
>And why make it looks like a button? Can't it just looks like status
>item or the apple logo
>on OSX?

Granted. But until now all (hand woven) toolbars at GNUstep apps looked 
like big buttons (for instance GNUmail.app)



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