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Re: [gpsd-users] GPSD on Debian 10 (buster): allowing other hosts to acc

From: Gary E. Miller
Subject: Re: [gpsd-users] GPSD on Debian 10 (buster): allowing other hosts to access gpsd
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2019 13:40:10 -0700

Yo Bernd!

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 22:02:05 +0200
Bernd Zeimetz <address@hidden> wrote:

> On 9/30/19 12:51 AM, Gary E. Miller wrote:
> >> * Casual end users, e.g. the typical Android user. This user could
> >> not care less about systemd or its interactions with gpsd. We
> >> should be able to ignore them.  
> > 
> > Two very separate end users here.  Android, which does not use
> > systemd, and Linux/MacOS users.
> > 
> > This is the class of user that has the most problems with systemd
> > and come to gpsd-users and gpsd-dev because the systemd defaults
> > and documentation are not doing what they want.
> > 
> > So the most critical need is for these folks.  At least until
> > distros change their defaults and distro specific doc for them.  
> Debian does not have distro specific defaults.

Say what?  So it ships nothing?

> It takes the systemd files as shiped in the gpsd release (with a fixed
> path as we do not use /usr/local).

Funny!  I know the gpsd systemd files are broken!

> We also disable two udev rules as they match and break too many
> generic usb<>serial adapters.

Thanks for upstreaming those patches.

You do realize that gpsd policy is to discourage udevd for GNSS

> >> * GPS receiver (and other data source) developers. Most of these
> >> want to integrate their data source with gpsd. Their interest in
> >> systemd, if any, is to allow them to do what they need to do.
> >> These are admins only by necessity.  
> > 
> > And similar to the first group.  They want gpsd, as installed by the
> > distro, to just work.  Which for sysgemd(ung) users is also not the
> > case.  
> If it does not, fix the systemd files in your repository.

Patches welcome.  I know our systemd(ouch) files are broken

> And/or add some test cases.

Patches welcome.

> For me it just works fine.

And yet, this list is constantly getting Ubuntu user complaints...

> Or point me to a proper bug report which is not the result of people
> not reading the systemd documentation. I'm happy to commit fixes to
> the systemd files in the gpsd repository...

Patches welcome.  Either email, GitLab issue report or GitLab MR.

> >> Whoever works on actual systemd unit files should
> >> probably know more about systemd than anyone else.  
> > 
> > Unrelated to category.  But this is our real problem, few can make
> > systemd(umb) work, and few of them stick around long enough to
> > document their wounds.  
> I can, I'm happy to fix things, but so far I have not yet seen a
> proper bug report.
> If the socket is not listening on the public interface, its a feature,
> not a bug, and common knowledge on how to change a systemd socket
> configuration. Nothing to fix in the gpsd repository.

It is a bug because the gpsd autobaud takes time, then the GNSS
needs to download the ephemeris, and by then the user gave up.

Also, gpsd needs to run all the time to discipline chrinyd/ntpd.

Any but the most casual gpsd user needs to run it 100% of the time,
not as an on-demand service.  Due to the design of GNSS receivers that
can not every work well.

> Please tell me what to fix, and it can be done.

I don't use Ubuntu, I just have to suffer your users that are winging me.

My fix: rip out systemd(ank).

> >>>> And some links to the gpsd documentation.    
> >>>
> >>> Lost me?  We are talking about the gpsd documentation?    
> s/gpsd/systemd/

I don't care about systemd(ung).

> > For devs, yes, but most visitors to gpsd-users just want a simple
> > list of steps to solve the problems of all known systemd(umbest)
> > configurations to work with gpsd.  They already hate systemd(rek)
> > they want to touch it as little as possible.  
> The only one who hates sytemd is you, other people just have not yet
> learned how to use it.

Funny.  The last two Youtube videos I watched from systemd presenters
had hecklers in the background.  Wake up, smell the rot.  Devuan grows
for good reasons.

Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
        address@hidden  Tel:+1 541 382 8588

            Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas?
    "If you can't measure it, you can't improve it." - Lord Kelvin

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