Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Adding some scummvm game(s) to the "List of software that does not respect the Free System Distribution Guidelines"

[Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli]

On Sat, 10 Jun 2023 17:29:48 -0400
Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote (from multiple mails in this
thread):
> Anyway, if someone ever does write a free game that uses ScummVM, we
> could change our judgment of the matter.

and:
> [...] Writing a free game is a lot of work.  The small preparatory
> task of getting and installing ScummVM would hardly discourage anyone
> who is prepared to do that work.

and:
> Wine is a more difficult case because we have decades of history
> of including it.  Also, while there is a limited list of programs
> that need ScummVM, a much broader range of programs might need Wine,
> including maybe some free programs.

So the way to go would be to make sure that free programs can run
inside virtual machines like scummVM. 

That makes sense as otherwise it could steer people towards nonfree
software or give a bad example to users if there is no known free
software that can run inside that virtual machine.

But what I don't understand here is why these programs really needs to
be games. And a similar question applies for Wine, (why) do we need
programs that don't natively run on GNU/Linux but run fine in Wine to
decide that Wine is useful to keep packaging?

I think that insisting more on making sure that there are programs that
runs inside these virtual machines that are really free (no nonfree
library bundled in, can be rebuilt with only free software, etc) and
not caring much about the specific use case would be a better strategy
than requiring these program to fulfill specific use cases like games.

This of course assumes that the package description of the virtual
machine reflects how they can be used with only free programs not to
steer people toward nonfree software.

Also I do think that writing a program for a virtual machine and
packaging software are two different skills that don't necessarily
overlap. For instance some users might be able to easily write Java
code but would not be able to package the Java virtual machine and
compiler, and vice versa. 

But if there were no documentation on how to write a free Java program,
and only nonfree Java applications were know, then the Java virtual
machine would be useless for people wanting to run only free software.

With Wine, if uses cases of free programs that run in it are taken into
account, it would raise a lot more strategical questions like:
- The use cases that are or are not to be covered by FSDG distributions
  (is automatic testing a valid use case for an FSDG distribution? What
  about running projects infrastructure with it?).
- The importance of being able to build and test software for nonfree
  operating systems with FSDG compliant distributions without ever
  having to run these nonfree operating systems (in some cases it could
  be strategic to be able to do that like with GNU Taler).

Having things packaged in distributions even if individuals don't
typically use them directly can also be extremely useful when running
free software projects or infrastructure as they reduce the amount of
maintenance needed and it gives a lot of benefits as well (mirroring,
checksums and signatures, tooling to help maintaining packages, trivial
integration in deployment systems, etc).

Denis.

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