Re: [Phpgroupware-developers] iDots Template (was: DotGNU 0.1 CD-ROM available from CheapBytes.com)

[Dave Hall]

Lars Kneschke <address@hidden> wrote:

> Chris Weiss <address@hidden> schrieb: 
> >Seems to me that it would be in eGW's best intrest to at least be on
> >working terms
> >with phpGW in the areas where our code is still shared.  There 
> are still
> >potential
> >exploits in the code, there are in every project no matter the 
> origins or
> >language,
> >and if we don't have a working relationship one of us is likely 
> to be in
> >big trouble
> >down the road.  And given our user base vs. yours, i'm willing to 
> bet it
> >won't be us.
> >
> I also think the best idea is to work together. But i'm not shure 
> if this is
> possible.

We are finalising our vision for where we want the project to go over
the next year.  This will be a discussion for the phpGroupWare community
to participate in.  We are not reliant on any project for our code base.
 phpGroupWare has a long history of being a project that sets the bar
for web based groupware - and this will continue.

We are looking at adopting all relevant open standards.  As the project
is L/GPL legally we can't stop you from using our code, if you comply
with the licensing conditions.  But this doesn't mean it is done with
our support or respect for your actions.

> 
> Have a look at the images. You don't have any copyright on them, 
> but they
> are in phpgw's cvs. 

Any reference to licensing of the template set states it is GPL.  Pim
has assigned copyright to the FSF so the headers need to be updated to
reflect this - in both cvs trees for the work he did until he forked.

> I don't know if dave did know it or not, only 
> dave will
> know. It's not important for me. 

I have no recollection or record of me being informed of this.  I would
never support the importing of non free items into our cvs tree - my
track record on this is clear.  

> But from what i did see in the past, the license problem seems to 
> be very
> inportant for your project. So i'm a little bit surprissed that 
> you just
> leave images in your cvs. 

The images are remaining in our cvs tree until the matter is discussed
with the alleged copyright holder.  This is in keeping with the proposed
licensing guidelines which are currently being discussed within the project.

> The javascript calendar which is 
> released under
> LGPL did become removed immediatily, because of some magic reason.

It is not LGPL (and so not GPL compatible) and that is why it was
removed.  It was a new commit, that is why it was removed.  If the jscal
licensing issue is persued, it could be found that EGO as a project has
breached the GPL and so Section 4 of the license could be triggered
which may mean all members of your project lose the right to ever
distribute phpgw or any derived works.  This is not FUD, but fact. 
IANAL, so i won't speculate further.

> 
> On the other dave is telling everyone that we don't produce free 
> software,since our fork. He does also not tell what the problem 
> is. 

I have always been very clear on this.  jscalendar is not LGPL and it is
not GPL compatiable so it can not be linked to any GPL code (ralf's
jscal wrapper was first imported into the phpgw tree as GPL which the
FSF holds copyright over).   

> Dave(one of
> leaders) and seek3r(another leader of your project) did jump in 
> our channel
> and tell people shit about us. 
> And do not tell about literati was 
> in your
> channel and did tell shit too. literati is no offical leader of 
> our project.
> He did have a personal problem with dave.
> 
> So don't be suprissed when reiner is not willing to talk to much 
> with you.
> He said everything you need to know.
> 

Reiner made no attempt to back up his claims.  That is SCO style FUD! 
The forum he chose to raise it in was completely inappropriate.

> I can't see how we can work togehter, when your leaders are acting 
> likethat.
> We produce free software and will do so in the future. And it is 
> totalyunimportant for me what dave or seek3r are telling.
> 
> I can say, that i can talk with reiner and he will stop any fud. 
> I'm not
> sure if you can organize the same with dave and seek3r.
> 
> And i'm also willing working together on some standards or talking 
> aboutexploits togehter. We produce free software anyways.
> 

Let work on a better solution.  We continue to innovate while you
imitate.  Before the fork occurred it was clear that none of the leaders
of you project had any real commitment to working with those committed
to the sucess of phpGroupWare.  Post fork nothing has changed, except we
have more time to code, rather than playing "ego" games.

Yes there is a lot of hostility from some of us towards your project, I
do not see this changing, but that is because of the stunts you keep on
trying to pull.  Next time you have a great idea for undermining phpGW
or related projects, don't waste your time - it won't work.  We will not
let FUD and slander slow the progress of phpGroupWare.

If you have something relevant to raise with the phpGW crew, provide
facts and use the appropriate forums.  Otherwise bugger off and get on
with your *own* project!

Cheers

Dave Hall

PS The opinions expressed in this email represent my own views, not
those of the project as a whole, others can speak for themselves.

dave.hall.vcf
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