Re: [Fhsst-authors] Discussion with Yochai

[Mark Horner]

Hi all

Wow - I didn't expect to see such a passionate discussion triggered.

I love LaTeX and I really like using CVS - and so does the rest of the 
admin team - thats why we started with them. The problem was/is quite 
simply the teething problems people from a Windows-only background have 
getting going. I say this is purely from experience.

The idea of key authentication is new to them (usually) so making and 
registering keys is a whole new problem, needed for CVS. In SA the 
download of Miktex takes many many hours (think dial-up speeds). Then 
there is a learning curve for LaTeX after you've managed to install the 
missing packages for Miktex and found an editor which you can bear! I 
hear murmurs of emacs - so that would be another learning curve for a 
Word person. It adds up quite quickly.

Most people are very busy and so finding time for volunteer projects is 
relatively hard - then spending many hours just setting up the software 
to get going is quite demotivating. We've seen this a number of times 
and I must admit I hate setting it all up on Windows myself.

That said - I agree with Nicholas - yes people can just write in Word 
and send it in. As soon as we want things edited though we need to send 
people self-contained LaTeX files because its too much of a pain to go 
back to Word for them and then reconvert to LaTeX later.

To Roger's concerns - thanks for sending in your thoughts, I agree with 
your solution. When we first started we insisted on LaTeX/CVS usage but 
realised pretty quickly its not very practical. I don't think we are in 
serious trouble but I am concerned that we don't manage to turn every 
volunteer into a contribution, even with Word etc. being allowed. I know 
its hard to find time - we are all just volunteers. Thats the reason 
you've not heard about your diagrams yet. Sarah, like me, has been 
completely snowed under working for the conference we have next week.

I think the best thing the project could get is someone with more time. 
We are including a salary in our funding application so that we have 
better turnaround times on the admin side. Also when we start raising 
money and tyring to print books I think a single point of contact with 
time on their hands would be good.

The comments from the discussion with Yochai were meant to imply that we 
agreed that the smaller and faster the contribution required of a 
volunteer the faster development would take place. Its a 
Wikipedia/Wikibooks comparison pretty much. It makes sense. We have the 
added burden of needing to make the entire book consistent and coherent 
so 10 000 disjoint paragraphs isn't a solution. This is the reason that 
I prefer to give people larger assignments.

I hope that all makes a little sense.

Cheers,

Mark


Harrigan, Nicholas A M wrote:
> Does the latex availability really have to be an issue? I agree that latex is a 
> skill well worth acquiring, but if people are being assigned tasks to edit all 
> submitted text anyway, and since (it being high-school level education) there 
> are a minimal number of equations, then can't people write in word if they so 
> desire and then the editors copy and past the text and translate equations into 
> tex? Also, figures could be produced in any package so desired and then 
> re-exported as eps using photoshop (as long as there are guidelines to maintain 
> consistency in figure layout).
>  
> Nic.
>  
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: address@hidden on behalf of Roger L. Sieloff
> Sent: Sun 31/07/2005 15:07
> To: A general discussion list for contributors
> Subject: RE: [Fhsst-authors] Discussion with Yochai
>
>
>
>
> My last post was not an attempt to discourage anyone from using the latex
> authoring tool but was more of a concerned responce to what I've read (and
> not read) concerning this project. I wrote an essay which was received well
> but needed graphics. I then provided the graphics, got another letter of
> thanks and then no further contact whatsoever. The next few letters were
> what I assumed was one of the project directors who appeared to be lamenting
> he had no experience with latex. Assumptions and impressions led me to
> believe this project was in serious trouble and I felt oblidged to help by
> offering a couple suggestions.
>
> It dosen't matter to me what tools are used in this project, actually. If
> I'm at fault for anything it was not reading the project guidelines. This
> all appears to be an internet based resource, but the emphasis on latex
> makes me think the end result is going to be printed classroom material.
>
> I downloaded the latex package and got it up and running on my Windows XP
> system with few problems. Its only use has been as a plugin for a software
> code documentation system known as DoxyGen. I'm famaliar with what I call
> "script based text formatting languages". I used one in 1992 and got rather
> good, but then Microsoft introduced its true type fonts and eventually
> developed the Office package and the rest is history of course. HTML seems
> to me to be the internet equivalent of latex as both appear to be script
> based. However, Microsoft has a nice package called Front Page which makes
> HTML very easy to deal with. I know of no tool for latex, but honestly, I
> don't use it very often.
>
> Might I suggest setting up something in Microsoft Word and then using the
> Adobe Post Script package as an intermediary between Microsoft and latex? I
> believe latex has an EPS import feature and if this transformation from DOC
> to EPS to latex preforms as it should, then I would say the bulk of the job
> is done. At this point I would simply "tweak" latex until the document is
> properly formatted.
>
> If this project is going to be internet based (but provides downloadable
> materials in latex format), there are a whole host of wonderful web
> authoring tools available to add alot of interest and beauty to your web
> site. Front Page express is the easiest and cheapest (its now part of the XP
> package) but the ultimate tool appears to be Macromedia Flash. To see what
> this software is capable of, link to rathergood.com which features music
> videos which were assembled with this package. "Looking for my leopard" is
> especially entertaining. Unfortunately, all this power comes at quite a
> price. The SDK (software development kit) is nearly 1000 dollars, but I saw
> something on EBay offered for 300. I'm seriously concidering getting my
> hands on this software.
>
> Roger L. Sieloff
>
>
>
>
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