Re: [GNU-linux-libre] 10 minutes, and uzbl browser became usable

[Jean Louis]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 04:53:28PM +0100, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
> On 11/15/2016 03:15 PM, Dima Krasner wrote:
> > ---- On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 15:57:07 +0200 Zlatan Todoric  wrote ----
> > 
> > > Devuan is IMHO just a joke (https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/
> > Sounds like you're attacking a free software project, too.
> 
> Indeed but I will point difference between systemd and Devuan - one was much
> needed solution which majority of well experienced projects and people
> adopted, other was a reaction "f this systemd sh*t, lets fork and do
> something meaningless" - everyone has right to do whatever they want but for
> me here it is clear that one project is trying to solve things and other is
> just breaking community into more pieces.

Community need not be in one peace. And they have now so much in
common.

Devuan is contributing to freedom, exactly by using the software how
they wish and want, by modifying it and distributing to others. That
is the whole point of it.

Github, even proprietary, and with jailing over users, have a button
"Fork me", something like this. A fork within few seconds. That is the
point of it.

The community of Debian will have benefits of Devuan, and they do have
it. And Devuan has large benefits of Debian. It is always good to see
contributions.

Devuan also does not mind of distributions created on Devuan:
https://devuan.org/ 

Gnuinos http://gnuinos.org
Refracta http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta
Nelum-dev1 https://sourceforge.net/projects/nelum-dev1
Star https://sourceforge.net/projects/linnix
Zephyr https://sourceforge.net/projects/zephyrlinux

So the project developers at Devuan do not share the view point that
community is going apart, rather that they are creating communities
with specialized interests.

> Of course, this is just my personal opinion and I might be wrong but in this
> case I hardly doubt it. TBH, Debian probably single handedly spread Free
> software definition more into world than all other distros out there
> combined including PureOS, Devuan etc - because of Debian I learnt about GNU
> Manifesto and GNU in general, so it is probably personal to me when people
> don't pay respect to it.

That is great. In the meantime, Debian is considering GNU Manifesto as
"non-free", due to their deviated definitions of what is free and what
not.

Let us analyze what Debian is promoting, what I pointed out long ago,
on Gnusocial.club, and nothing changed until today:

From:
https://www.debian.org/social_contract

 Debian will remain 100% free

We provide the guidelines that we use to determine if a work is "free"
in the document entitled "The Debian Free Software Guidelines". We
promise that the Debian system and all its components will be free
according to these guidelines. We will support people who create or
use both free and non-free works on Debian. We will never make the
system require the use of a non-free component.

So, they openly state, that non-free works are to be supported on
Debian. It is hypocrisy in itself. They will not require system to use
non-free, but they will support people who create non-free works on
Debian. 

There is great contribution from Debian for free software. That is for
me like "Amen". Before the free system distributions, I was installing
Debian on friends machines, and still using it on servers, until I
send my compilation of GNU to my provider. They promised to install
it.

The problems are there, hidden in words, editors of Debian are doing
it either intentionally, or they just neglect the editing:
https://gnusocial.club/file/f27e57c4e6d2a2dd391daf719759244b1039ad4566d9e994b95f287a91be617b.jpg

Just follow the steps here:

1) Debian Social Contract:
https://www.debian.org/social_contract

 Debian will remain 100% free

We provide the guidelines that we use to determine if a work is "free"
in the document entitled "The Debian Free Software Guidelines". We
promise that the Debian system and all its components will be free
according to these guidelines. We will support people who create or
use both free and non-free works on Debian. We will never make the
system require the use of a non-free component.

-- and all its components will be free --- they say

2) now you go to:
   
https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList?action=show&redirect=sources.list#Component
   where you can find what are the components of Debian system, there
   are main, contrib and non-free, which implies that they consider
   non-free software a component in Debian system which is free
   according to Debian guidelines.

So, I don't get it, is it free or non-free and how non-free can be free?

Jean Louis