Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Skeleton GNU/Linux

[Jean Louis]

Dear Zlatan,

On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 12:25:18AM +0100, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
> > I am user, so it is very user friendly to me. The sources, with the
> > build are just 12 MB, that is also very user friendly, considering,
> > that Internet connection in Africa is not as good as yours. Even
> > compiling of Chrome or IceCat, is simply going to fail, if I am not
> > running on solar powered battery, as there are often power outages
> > here.
> 
> No, you're a developer and user. I am developer and user. My friend is user
> and mechanic. He and *HUGE* majority don't care about is it 12MB or 120MB,
> the size doesn't mean anything to them in this age. Africa - we need to fix
> connection and electrical supply and not put UX backwards. None of average
> users will compile (unless you ask them to do it or they find it curios -
> which has a chance he will be a developer).

When somebody is mechanic, it means not the person is dumb or that
cannot program. It also does not mean he/she shall be served with
software in such manner to remain user, and nothing else.

Even for IceCat and other Firefox similar browsers, there is learning
time before user can use it actually. That learning curve is certainly
way longer and more complex than learning how to use uzbl browser.

I am not voting for you to use it, or deliver to your users, I have
explained how I am not in a position to download IceCat whenever I
wish, it is large. It takes long time to compile, and it shall fit on
a single 32 GB memory stick or USB together with other software, to be
easily copied onto other computers.

You cannot fix electrical connection in whole Africa. But we can put
software on a stick and copy to each other. That is very practical.

When you speak of average users, you have certain area of world where
which you are targeting, I guess Western countries. The true average
user definition is far from that.

> > Small browser with few configuration files and perfectly customizable,
> > with high privacy levels, seem to be very user friendly.
> 
> Most of people don't understand even what privacy means (we in Purism
> struggle so much to justify that) - so not really something majority would
> consider user-friendly.

I have made an interview here with somebody, he said he was using
Linux. I asked him what is GNU, he did not know. I have shown him the
company computer, where it says "GNU" on screen, he did not know it is
"Linux". Then I told him how GNU started, and how Linux kernel came to
it, and how it shall be called GNU/Linux rather.

He was programming application on Android. I asked him about kernel on
Android, he did not know. It took us 20 minutes to synchronize the
thoughts, and he understood it. That was the only person who knew
about programming that came to interview.

The other staff members, 5 people in total, they could learn Emacs
within one hour (someone shorter or longer) and start translating,
even using Org Mode.

Everbody is being taught on privacy, and they apply it.

In summary, free software movement and cultue is not just selling free
software. It is about teaching others, and sharing, and elevating
their levels of knowledge.

> > Yes, we shall teach users how to use computing tools, software and how
> > to become programmers. I am not somebody who likes leaving users in a
> > stage of not knowing what they can do with a computer and software.
> 
> No, we should not. My friend mechanic is not forcing me to know how car
> works or how to fix it in order just to drive it.

"Force" - I have not mentioned. I am against any coercion. Teaching is
not forcing. I agree on that, users shall not be forced.

On the other hand, they shall also not be treated dumb.

Free software documentation shall be delivered with a
distribution. Programming languages shall be delivered. The
documentation for browser shall be delivered too. But I have never get
reall documentation with Firefox, I don't remember. Not even with
IceCat, I get enough documentation. That is not empowering.

There was time when users were not treated dumb, the time of small
computers, and each computer buyer was treated as smart person, able
to write programs.

Even Microsoft, that was monopolizing the PC market with proprietary
operating system, was delivering large 2 books with each MS-DOS copy,
those book were about the MS-DOS commands and shell environment, and
GW-BASIC if I remember well. Each PC user at that time have got
software that is empowering them. They shared programs at that time
much more than today, in terms of sharing sources. Companies were
making invoicing programs and accounting, all custom made, and private
people were making games, teachers making physical and mathematical
demonstrations and quizzes. Nobody was forced to program, but when you
got a large 2 books with the PC, both related to programming, well
written, you had an opportunity to learn more, by the choice, and not
by coercion.

The GNU/Emacs screen *scratch* does not force anyone to program. I
believe that it made more programmers in the world than any single
school or university. It is simply there, offering you full
documentation and evaluation of Emacs Lisp programs. Some need years,
some never get it, but so many start programming within simple editing
environment. It was smart ass idea to empower people, and for this I
am thankful to RMS and other authors of GNU/Emacs.

I would myself widen the Free System Distribution Guidelines in
regards to teaching other people about free software and empowering
them.

Certainly, I would add points like:

1) Is the distribution prominently teaching users about free software?

and also like

2) Is the distribution giving opportunity to users to get empowered
and learn programming languages?

> I don't want to be a mechanic. And he can be pissed of about it, but
> it will still not change my will. Do you know how to fix car and how
> it works - should someone teach you if you want just to drive or
> take a cab? What about planes? Do you know all about them? And TV?
> And radio? And washing machine?

It is not about changing will. By delivering a distribution, you have
choices, of closing access to understanding about software and free
software in general, even if you deliver Free Software. And you have
option to give them opportunities to empower themselves.

> > Finally, average Tanzanian, working here in my company, learns Emacs
> > tutorial within 60 minutes, and uzbl within 5 minutes. Even if those
> > people don't have much access to computer otherwise.
> 
> And average person already uses Firefox/Chrome/Opera/Safari and maybe it
> will surprise you - they hardly even think about it, it just works
> for them.

All of the above mentioned programs are based on corporate
interests and just all of them come from a proprietary world.

Of course that one can put a lot of money into advertising and push
people to use the software. You mentioned force? Exactly that software
you mentioned have been forced and forced and forced all over again
onto users. It caused so much trouble in last decades and we speak of
trouble to users and not common corporate standards, binding users
into a browser, "Please switch" and so on.

Jean Louis