Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Re: any Free BSD variant?

[Karl Goetz]

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:54:09 +0800
Graziano Sorbaioli <address@hidden> wrote:

> On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 01:48 +0300, Waver Doganov wrote:
> > Graziano Sorbaioli wrote:
> > > So.. what do you think could be the best system/method to use as a
> > > base to create a "GNU os"?

Liberally trimmed through this email.

(as with the other email, wet cement)

> > Yes, this is unfortunate duplication of effort.  But I see no other
> > way.  (This was considered before, multiple times, and rms has
> > rejected the idea of a pure "GNU" distro.  Instead, he has suggested
> > to raise specific concerns and cooperate actively with communities
> > like Debian's.  This is mission impossible, IMNSHO.  They just don't
> > listen to us, and there's no way to change that.)
> 
> 
> Sure maybe this could not seem the easiest and best way to do it but I
> think that, like gnewsense, people will come and collaborate if they
> trust the idea of a pure gnu fully free system.

Outside of {P,K}FV I can count the recent gNS (code) contributors on my
thumbs, and those making other useful contributions for > 30 days on one
hand. (in the last few weeks there's been a bit more interest, I'll see
how that pans out).
(Free) Distribution building is *not* a case of "Build and they will
come".

> I agree that cooperate actively with communities like Debian's is
> mission impossible.
> Me, Giuseppe Scrivano and other gnu people tried too many times to
> talk to them with no result.
> 
> As you said "They just don't listen to us, and there's no way to
> change that".

I disagree that trying to work with other distributions is impossible.
In my mind an obvious helpful thing a gNS team could do is work on the
packages in contrib and help move them from depending on non-free apps
(say sunjre) to free software. That would directly benefit gNS, and be
a useful change we could push to every Debian derivative, via debian.

> So where do we go from here?
> 
> Actually two versions of gNewSense are based on debian: the mips
> version I am currently using on my Lemote Yeeloong, and the ppc one
> (i386 32 and 64 bit are still ubuntu based for now).

One release is Debian based: MetaD. 
(I'm agreeing, just trying to clarify a bit).

> Basing on debian is a first step. I am not a developer but the people
> who currently maintain gNewSense assured me that using debian as a
> base will make gnewsense easily to maintain and upgrade.

Yes it would.

> So just to summarize.
> 

Stressing once again about the not-fixed nature of the world.

> 0) complete the process of switching all gnewsense versions from
> ubuntu to debian (mips is almost finished, ppc is work in progress,
> i386 32 and 64bit have yet to start).

I am told the inital work will be trivial, but we'll still want plenty
of time to get the infrastructure working and the 'final touches'.

> 1) Complete the work which is being done by gnewsense devs on the
> community repository and add/maintain our libre packages there.

This makes sense.

> 2) Discuss how to move forward using Waver Doganov's documentation,
> better if all the process is inside a wiki (config.fsf.org?)

If my editing input is required, somewhere I don't need to create
another login would be a nice touch. ;)

> 3) Start to apply what Waver Doganov has just proposed: switching
> packages to the GNU alternative, one by one.

This is *not* going to happen to gNS in the near future. For a start
increasing the developer pool by two orders of magnitude will be
required. (eg, I wont consider it while we have < 30 devs).

Thats not to say the packages couldnt be made available in the community
repo if people wanted to start working on them ...
kk

-- 
Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS)
Debian contributor / gNewSense Maintainer
http://www.kgoetz.id.au
No, I won't join your social networking group

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