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Re: suggestions on toolbar icons
From: |
Jan D. |
Subject: |
Re: suggestions on toolbar icons |
Date: |
Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:41:00 +0100 |
I won't belabor this, but I do have a few responses. Your reply is, in
essence, "GNOOOOMMME" (shades of Allen Ginsberg w/ "Oommmm"). If
GNOME's
choices are not always the best, we will nevertheless live with it.
No,they are not always the best, far from it. But there is a point in
aligning with them.
- Folder (for "file): This is _not_ good. A folder icon is used
ubiquitously for, well, a folder - that is, a directory.
You are talking Microsoft products here I guess. This is the Gnome
stock open icon, I see no advantage to adopt a different set of
guidelines different from Gnome where the folder icon is not at
all is
ubiquitously used for directory. Check out any Gnome application.
- Directory (Dired):
Suggestion: Use a regular folder icon. Duh?
GTK_STOCK_DIRECTORY _is_ a standard folder icon. This _agrees_ with my
suggestion (not at all Microsoftesque) that a standard folder icon
should be
used for Dired. If you think advocating that a folder icon be used to
represent a folder editor implies advocating adopting Microsoft
conventions,
then I would suggest that you are overly zealous in your struggle.
Oommmm.
I don't have any "struggle". I'm just pointing out that Gnome should
have higher priority than any other desktop, be it KDE, OSX or
whatever. GTK_STOCK_OPEN and GTK_STOCK_DIRECTORY are confusingly
similar (did I just say that Gnome isn't always the best?). OPEN is
what the action is, not FILE. Sometimes (without file dialog or the
Motif dialog), you can actually open directories with open. So FILE
does not apply.
Similarly, GTK_STOCK_FILE is a standard file icon. This _agrees_ with
my
suggestion to keep this icon.
It is not FILE, it is NEW we are using. And should be using, as the
action is NEW as in new buffer, not FILE. Again, it is possible to
make a new buffer without any file with this under the right settings.
The question then is, what about new-file vs existing-file? I suggested
using something similar for both of these. GTK_STOCK_NEW is in fact
_identical_ to GTK_STOCK_FILE, showing that GNOME and I think alike on
this
one.
Emacs, however, currently uses the _directory_ icon,
GTK_STOCK_DIRECTORY for
opening an existing file - it happens that this icon is identical to
GTK_STOCK_OPEN. Using a folder to represent opening a _file_ flies in
the
face of every UI I've ever seen. Are you sure that GTK_STOCK_OPEN is
intended for files, not for directories? Does using it for opening a
file
make sense to you?
Check out any Gnome application, it is the most common icon (as is
OPEN), it is indeed used for opening existing files. We did not put
this in Emacs on a hunch.
Finally, if you are going to use GNOME as a litmus test, then why not
be
consistent and use GTK_STOCK_GOTO_TOP instead of GTK_STOCK_HOME for
Info's
Top? Likewise, why not use GTK_STOCK_GO_BACK for Back (which is,
presumably,
chronological) - as in Web browsers? Why use the GNOME undo/redo icon
(GTK_STOCK_REDO) for Back and Forward? I suspect that we are already
departing dangerously from the GNOME Oommmmm. It's a slippery slope...
HOME was used because previous Emacs versions use HOME from GTK 1.x.
BACK is used in info, I presume that is what you mean. Are you
suggesting BACK for two actions? The previous version of Emacs used
redo/undo, so we keep that. As you pointed out, there are icons
missing.
The Gnome stock quit could be used in info to quit, it is an arrow
pointing to an open door.
Yes, that's better, although the icon is ambiguous (entering or
exiting?)
and is not very clear (the door is hard to distinguish). I prefer the
international exit sign - the one you look for when there's a fire.
Make that icon, so we can see what it looks like.
- Tooltip for quit/exit:
Suggestion: Use "Quit buffer", or "Delete buffer" instead of
"Discard current buffer". I prefer "Quit buffer".
But "Quit Buffer" is not clear, it could mean the same as "Quit
Info"
i.e. leaving the buffer intact, just switching to another buffer.
"Quit" is clearer (and more common) than "discard". At this level, the
distinction between leaving the buffer intact and killing it is not
important - and "discard" doesn't help with this distinction anyway.
It is very important. It is a great difference between just burying a
buffer and discarding it.
Jan D.
- suggestions on toolbar icons, Drew Adams, 2005/03/16
- RE: suggestions on toolbar icons, Drew Adams, 2005/03/17
- Re: suggestions on toolbar icons,
Jan D. <=
- RE: suggestions on toolbar icons, Drew Adams, 2005/03/17
- Re: suggestions on toolbar icons, Jan D., 2005/03/18
- Re: suggestions on toolbar icons, David Kastrup, 2005/03/18
- Re: suggestions on toolbar icons, Jan D., 2005/03/18
- Re: suggestions on toolbar icons, David Kastrup, 2005/03/18
- RE: suggestions on toolbar icons, Drew Adams, 2005/03/18
- Re: suggestions on toolbar icons, Jan D., 2005/03/18
- Re: suggestions on toolbar icons, David Kastrup, 2005/03/17
- Re: suggestions on toolbar icons, Miles Bader, 2005/03/17
- RE: suggestions on toolbar icons, Drew Adams, 2005/03/18