Re: User interface, TeXmacs and Axiom (was: Re: [Axiom-developer] backups)

[Pierre Doucy]

On 4/13/06, Antoine Hersen <address@hidden> wrote:
> Hello Pierre
>
>
> > Antoine, I very much agree with you... until you start saying that
> > Emacs might do the trick ;-)
>
>
> I am using emacs day and night lately , I might be biased ..
>
> > Emacs is indeed very portable, very powerful, but also extremely scary
> > at first sight, in particular if you're not used to coding. Although
> > it is not impossible to master it, it requires a lot of implication
> > from the end user, which is not a good thing.
>
>
> Not true ...
> http://bc.tech.coop/blog/060302.html
>  I think if we use CUA( cut and paste like windows)
> Hide everything scary, create menu and toolbox. Therefore dumbing down
> emacs, write clear install direction maybe it will be manageable for
> "normal" people ?
>

The thing is, there are no installation directions. Eclipse is self
contained (much like an OSX app) so you copy it somewhere, click the
executable, and voila !
But stripping it down to the bare minimum for axiom would be a good
idea (i.e. the eclipse kernel + the axiom plugin).

>
>
> > I would rather use eclipse which, from a certain point of view, is
> > "emacs 30 years later" : the "interface for everything and nothing in
> > particular" approach, plus a certain degree of "cleanliness".
> > It may not be the sexiest of environments, but one can easily build a
> > very powerful user interface without coding the whole thing from
> > scratch.
>
>
> That is an excellent possibility I overlook.
> It is a strong choice, I dont think emacs will dye anytime soon but Eclispe
> has surely a larger user base, strong corporate support and a modern look
> and feel.
>
> Some issue :
>
> Interactive ability ?
> we should look to Python and co plug-in to see what they do.

jython ( http://www.jython.org ) or jruby ( http://jruby.sf.net )
should do the trick...

>
> Displaying math ? Is there some work done there ?
> I guess using latex back-end to generate png might be an option.

that
www.esr.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/VCLab/software/HotEqn/HotEqn.html
might help (beware, it tends to crash mozilla-based browsers)

>
> Managing noweb and latex, how much work will it be ?

Noweb shouldn't be too difficult to handle. Even a complete java
rewrite is feasible.

Latex is quite a different matter. If HotEqn isn't enough, that might
become a dependency (which is bad).

>
> Do yo want to investigate Pierre ?

Yep, but I won't be able to until the beginning of may.

>
> In general how many people able to work on the project have good java skill
> ?
> How many for elisp ?
> I am sure we will be able to get other CAS interested to such a project.
>
> I know by experience that Pierre is quite skilled in Java :)

I perfectly know what you're talking about. That whole xml
serialization stuff was a mistake. I apologize. (private joke).

Pierre

>
> Regards,
>
> Antoine Hersen
>
>
>
> > On 4/13/06, Antoine Hersen <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > My experience is making a good UI is a lot of works( aka way more than
> you
> > > imagine), especially if you go out the basic widget. ( I had a 30 line
> long
> > > rent there ).
> > >
> > > Before choosing a solution we should set goals and there relative
> > > importance. My try :
> > >
> > > + Attracting new user :
> > >     - sexy look
> > >    - toolbox
> > >    - template
> > >
> > >  + Productive Environment :
> > >     - easy to write pages long code :
> > >          - pretty print
> > >          - indentation
> > >          - source code management
> > >     - Good integration with the debugger
> > >    - A easy work flown( edit, compile, test)
> > >    - An know script langange( scheme, python)
> > >
> > > + Axiom specific
> > >    - Ease the write of pamphlet( writing literate programs is a lot of
> added
> > > work, that does not benefit the writer that much, so we should make it
> easy
> > > as possible
> > >
> > > The candidates :
> > > + Web based, Browser based : for Mozilla http://www.xulplanet.com/ maybe
> > > using MathML.
> > > Personally I have mixed fealling,  it is very hip and I will like for
> the
> > > tools to mature( think about Java UI for exemple Map... )
> > >
> > > + TeXmacs, the screenshot does looks good.
> > >
> > > + My big favorite imaxima :
> > >
> http://members3.jcom.home.ne.jp/imaxima/Site/Welcome.html
> > >
> > >  Why :
> > > Emacs work everywhere, with extensive menu an icon it is not that scary.
> > >
> > > We should be able to manage pamphlet in a elegant way. And think about
> > > everything that is already included, source code management, non various
> > > charset ....
> > >
> > > And very powerful and well documented language elisp !!!!
> > >
> > > + Start from scratch ( using http://mcclim.cliki.net/index )
> > >
> > > Other issue( I am sure it has been discussed before) :
> > >   - Improved documentation browser aware of pamphlet
> > >   - Improved plot 2D, 3D viewer.
> > >
> > > Some of this issue are problems common to all open source CAS, common
> > > solution will have more hands working on it.
> > >
> > >  Regards,
> > >
> > > Antoine Hersen
> > >
> > > PS : About debugging it is mostly a language tools issue,
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Axiom-developer mailing list
> > > address@hidden
> > >
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cats are intended to teach us that not everything in nature has a
> function.
> >
>
>


--
Cats are intended to teach us that not everything in nature has a function.