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Re: [Adonthell-devel] Battle System, take II

From: Kai Sterker
Subject: Re: [Adonthell-devel] Battle System, take II
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:37:45 +0100

On Monday 04 February 2002 21:53, you wrote:

> I've already exposed the idea, but we discussed it deeper: the player
> would have several 'basic' moves available (hit with your weapon from
> top to bottom, right to left, slowly but strongly, quickly but weakly,
> etc...) and could learn others from 'teachers'. In any safe place, or
> maybe only in training rooms, the player could then enter a
> pseudo-battle mode where his opponent would be a sand bag or
> punching-ball he could hit as much as he wants. In this mode, he could
> then build and record the attacks he would use in real fight by
> 'combining' some basic moves. The attacks could then be saved in a
> limited number of slots, and the player could reuse them in real battle.

In general I like that idea. It would be for fighters what the 
spell-creation/mixing is for mages.

> I thought a little further about that, and have some extra ideas. As you
> may know, I'm a martial arts addict and have a great interest in swords
> manipulation. So my concern with the fighting engine is that it should
> be as realistic as possible, in the way to 'learn' moves and to apply
> them. What's below is only the fruit of my thoughts, so a heavy
> discussion for improvments is welcome.
> There would be several 'types' of basic moves:
> -Offensive moves,
> -Defensive moves,
> -Transition moves.

That sounds quite interesting. So here are my thoughts on it.

For one, I wouldn't go too much into details ;). For example the direction of 
the move shouldn't matter. People should not have to think what transition 
can follow the last move, and what move would fit to that transition.

When defining (and testing) combos, you would start with a certain move from 
the list of known moves, then you would be presented all moves fitting to 
that one and so on ...

As for integration with the low level combat sytem: each time you make an 
attack move, the system calculates whether it is a hit or not. If it is a 
hit, the combo continues and the next hit would get some bonus. That bonus 
could increase slightly with every hit, until the combo is through or the 
opponent averts a hit. Might make sense to limit the number of moves in a 
combo in that case. 

A miss would put the attacker out of balance, so the combo wouldn't continue. 
Instead it would be the opponents chance to strike back.

To go even more into detail: each move would require a certain amount of 
time. At the end of the timespan would be the point where the hit calculation 
would occur. That means, if two opponents would start attacking each other at 
the same time, the one with the fastest move would get the first chance to 
hit. (Possibly, the dexterity attribute would have an influence on the 
duration of a move. The better, the faster.)

If it is a hit, the other guys attack is cancelled an he has to start from 
the beginning, while our own combo continues. If it's a miss however, our 
attack is cancelled whereas the other guy will continue as if nothing 

That way we could model the fight of a lightly armed, fast Elf (for example), 
against a slow human in full plate. While the Elf might not cause loads of 
damage, he'll hit pretty often. A hit from the human might cause plenty of 
damage, however he would have problems landing a hit.   

> Offensive moves are different moves to cut/hit what's in front of you,
> more or less quickly, strongly and surprisingly. Defensive moves would
> be moves that are automatically triggered when you are attacked and you
> are fast enough to guess what the opponent is trying to do, to break the
> attack (and, why not, counter attack if combined with an offensive
> move). Transition moves are moves you can place between two offensive
> moves when creating a combo, that would raise the surprise effect and
> shorten the time between the two attacks - or help realizing the next
> attack. As I am certainly not very clear, let's take an example:

Well, I'm not sure defensive moves should be included. If they are 
automatically triggered, the player could as well watch the fight, instead of 
acting. Especially if they lead to an (automatic) counter attack.

I personally think that the to-hit calculations can take over the defensive 
moves. Even if the player just watches, there's a good chance that an attack 
is averted. However, if he does not act himself, the opponent will eventually 


So all in all, players should have two possibilities. Either set up some 
combos, which would increase the time before they need to issue a new 
command. (Although they might stop inmidst the combo to do something else.)

Or they could just issue on single command after the other. Of course that 
way they'd lose some benefit of a successful combo. But they wouldn't have to 
go through all the preparing, but could dive into the action right away.

Again there could be teachers that show you complete combos instead of single 
moves, so the people that do not want to create their own would still be able 
to profit from them.

Okay, what do you people think. Especially you, Alex. It's your original idea 
after all! 


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