Re: Changing voice order...

[Alexander Kobel]

On 2016-10-28 14:52, David Kastrup wrote:
> Alexander Kobel <address@hidden> writes:
> > > [...]
> > > Basically you need to only fix those voices not obeying the standard
> > > scheme (usually just one) and the rest will work out.  So I don't really
> > > think that a special syntax is needed.
> >
> > True. But isn't the point of this shortcut notation that it saves you
> > the trouble of specifying those directions and voice names on your
> > own?
>
> Sure, but you talk about a case where one _has_ to specify a direction
> and voice name after all because the default does not work.  Admittedly,
> yet another shortcut saves you from figuring out what level of \inner
> (or whatever) you have to use.
>
> > Coincidentally, that's why I hardly ever use it: I tend to get
> > lost with the automatic assignment
>
> Well, which is why the automatic assignment should be as predictable and
> brainless and useful as possible.

After some consideration, I found the reason /why/ I don't like the 
automatic assignment.  It's not that it's unpredictable (at least for 
me; I'm used to the voice<N> order since a long time.  Rather, it's that 
there is automatic assignment going on at all:

I mostly set vocal music - typically clean SATB with exactly four voices 
on either two or four staves, but sometimes a voice splits to two or 
three in between.  In that case, I'll almost always have a four-staves 
situation.  This screams for << \\ >> or << \\ \\ >>.

However, I attach lyrics to the voices, and that's why I give them 
sensible names - namely, "sop" (or "soprano"), "alt", etc.  The implicit 
voice naming with << \\ >> means that I have to split my lyrics to 
separate context, or I'll have to rename the voices inside << \\ >>. 
The output of

sop = \relative c'' {
  c4 c c c
  << { c c } \\ { g4. g8 } >> c4 c
}

\score {
  <<
    \new Staff { \new Voice = "sop" \sop }
    \new Lyrics \lyricsto "sop" { a b c d e f g h }
  >>
}

is (lyrics-wise) counterintuitive enough that I mostly refrain from 
using the construct at all and resort to my own (simple) helper function 
that creates anonymous voices (above or below) and does not override the 
name of the main voice.
To change my style here, I'd need /at least/ prefixed voice names (that 
is, the voices created in line 3 would be named, e.g., "sop-1" and 
"sop-2"); some way to keep one voice in place and just add another one 
would make it a real boon.

However, this is maybe specific for this use case.  Plus, I cannot see 
an obvious way to add this functionality without cluttering the 
syntactic sugar with tons of parameters that make it no less ugly than 
simple helper functions...


Obviously, that does not have much to do with the order of voices.  It's 
just meant as an explanation that the reason for me not using << \\ >> 
is not the /way/ how automatic assignment works, but rather the /fact/ 
that automatic assignment is done at all.


Cheers,
Alexander