Re: [Evolution] CALL FOR SPONSORSHIP: The Open Group Ware Project

[srl]

It seems like there are plenty of groups that are working on
groupware and shared calendaring. It's clear to everyone that the
open-source community needs solutions to fill these needs. I think
that a lot could be accomplished by having everyone who's working on
calendaring and/or groupware get on one list and talk about their
plans and current progress. 

Topics could include:

- project profiles- "here's what project X is doing now, here are
our goals, here's how we're planning to accomplish them."
- developer strategies- "What are the best ways to implement this
feature of this open standard?"

The last thing we want is 10 different projects who've all done good
work but don't know one another exist, or one project with a really
good feature that didn't implement it using open standards. The goal
IMO shouldn't be to have a category-killer application, though that
would be nice; it should be to foster an ecology of software
projects that can all talk to one another. That way people can use
the software that best meets their needs, not just the one that
everyone else is using. (Those may coincide, of course, but they
don't have to.)

srl

On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, David A. Cobb wrote:

> OK, Who will provide a web host & mailing list processor (as a
> start) to throw this around?  First or lowest bidder?  I am not
> beholden to anyone (yet - they don't pay me :-} ), CollabNet has
> been good to OpenOffice but GLUE might give us more common
> ground.
> 
> Dan Kuykendall wrote:
> 
> > > == Recognizing The Potential:
> > >
> > > Evo and OO both recognize that comprehensive groupware functions GREATLY
> > > enhance the appeal of their respective products:  Evo sees shared
> > > calendars, shared contacts, a user-administered back-end permissions
> > > system, etc. all contribute to making Evo more valuable.
> >
> > Can I mention that phpGroupWare (and other such solutions) would also
> > benefit greatly by a joint effort? We are already moving toward doing
> > this all by ourselves, but could benefit from a shared effort.
> >
> > > ==  Facing The Reality
> > >
> > > Evo and OO realize that building something that competes (at least on
> > > some level) with Exchange and Notes is a significant undertaking.  Their
> > > products are shaping up, but there is still a LOT of work to do.  Time
> > > is of the essence.  Both groups conclude that their time is better spent
> > > working on their core products; but gosh-darn-it, it sure would be nice
> > > to have those back-end features.
> >
> > Ahhh the ever present dilemma. I think that this can be solved. In fact
> > I am working on solving part of this with the phpGroupWare project (will
> > explain more later).
> >
> > > == The Light Comes On
> > >
> > > Evo and OO know what what open source is all about.  They
> > > advocate/cheerlead/champion an open groupware initiative, put out a call
> > > for developers, post notices on their websites, and sound the general
> > > call to arms:  "We want to free countless corporate employees and system
> > > administrators from the tyrannies of expensive, proprietary groupware
> > > systems and the whims of their vendors!"  To get critical mass, they
> > > might ask some other prominent open source groups - or - gasp - a
> > > standards body - to get on board.
> >
> > Why in the world isn't this happening?!
> > I spend countless hours trying to talk with other groupware projects and
> > constantly try and find out if they are building any kind of inter
> > operability between their and my project, but am shut down with little
> > to no real consideration. Im ready to play ball with other projects. Im
> > ready to make this dream reality. I just cannot do it alone.
> >
> > > == The Call Goes Out
> > >
> > > Evo and OO are pretty well-known among the open source community;
> > > developers hear about this "open groupware standards" thing and become
> > > interested.  The founders of the 20 or so groupware projects that have
> > > languished still-born on sourceforge are reinvigorated by this call to
> > > action, thinking "Hey, I won't be ALONE this time, I'll have Ximian and
> > > OO on my side, and all these other developers are interested too!"  They
> > > call their project sidekicks in on it.  Eventually a persuasive
> > > charismatic (or two) emerges, like a Jobs or de Icaza.  He spreads the
> > > gospel at conventions:  "We're taking it to the next level, people!"
> >
> > Why not start now? Im ready... what about leaders of other groupware
> > project? I will start a mailing list if needed, but I think that maybe
> > FSF would be more appropriate.
> > I am in the middle of creating the "Open Source GroupWare Foundation"
> > which is going to start by taking control of phpGroupWare, working as a
> > governing body to help push phpGW development in a focused direction.
> > Right now we are in the process of a complete cleanup of our code. As
> > soon as this process is done I will be starting a draft for an
> > XML-RPC/SOAP interface to the API and core apps (email, calendar, todo,
> > notes). This XML-RPC/SOAP interface will open up our interface and data
> > store to any number of programming languages. This is where the "Open
> > Source GroupWare Foundation" will help step in and maintain the
> > XML-RPC/SOAP interfaces and work with app developers who want to build
> > interfaces in GTK, VB, C++ or whatever. So the idea is to start with
> > what we have, but work toward opening it up to other languages.
> > At some point we will probably start development of the back end using C
> > which will be a full blown daemon. Of course it will have a built in
> > http server which will be responsible for transporting the xml-rpc/soap
> > data.
> >
> > I personally think that XML-RPC/SOAP is the best way to go for the back
> > end services required for all these GroupWare clients to use.
> > XML-RPC/SOAP is supported by most major programming languages, its
> > flexible and fairly well designed, its network centric and it is very
> > buzzword compliant. Just think of how kick ass it will be to offer a
> > free and open .NET groupware service before M$ does. I think it can be
> > done. I think with my start in phpGW it can be done.
> >
> > Granted I don't think that PHP is the best long term solution, but I am
> > already working in this direction, and everyone else seems to be lost in
> > committee. The phpGW development is pushing ahead with or without anyone
> > else, but would of course rather have some heavy weights such as OO and
> > EVO working with us to make sure that the XML-RPC/SOAP structures we
> > build are properly re-usable by any groupware client. Building this
> > structure is the most important part. The backend code (PHP) can easily
> > be replaced by a better/faster solution if it becomes necessary.
> >
> > > == The Word Is Heard  (or: "Gentlemen: I give you - OOGS!")
> >
> > <nitpick>What is the second O for?</nitpick>
> > I say we start drafting OGWS (Open GroupWare Standard) using
> > XML-RPC/SOAP now. I will build phpGW as the first implementation of the
> > backend (unless someone can beat me to it).
> >
> > If no one joins me, I will do it myself. I have already been working
> > toward this and will keep doing so. Those that join will simply make
> > sure I do it the best way possible.
> >
> > > As Evo and OO's interest in open groupware standards rises, they start
> > > talking to each other more about interoperability.  Neither wants their
> > > fate tied to the fate of the other, but they find areas where they can
> > > cooperate and benefit without risking their own positions.
> >
> > This is where a backend that is completely separated from the GUI's will
> > benefit everyone.
> > BTW, my XML-RPC/SOAP implementation will take into account vCard and the
> > iCalendar standards. I personally don't think a whole lot of iTIP since
> > I have yet to see a single iTIP daemon. Also as a stand alone daemon it
> > seems far too limited. You would end up talking to IMAP for email, iTIP
> > for calendar/todo, maybe some kind of vCard daemon for contacts... I
> > think it MUCH easier for everyone if the XML-RPC/SOAP services deal with
> > the data and leave the client side to giving the user a rich and useful
> > tool.
> >
> > > == Stirrings in the Volcano Island Fortress
> > >
> > > The proprietary vendors pretend to ignore OOGS.  They don't even mention
> > > the word.  They forbid their employees to discuss it.  But in the upper
> > > echelons, they're reading everything about OOGS that they can get their
> > > hands on. Extra-double-plus-good lieutentants are permitted to install
> > > the OOGS betas, and submit secret reports to the bigshots.  Finally,
> > > when eWeek or C-Net run an article on it, they break down and issue a
> > > statement:
> >
> > Isn't this the funniest part?
> >
> > > == OOGS 1.0
> >
> >  == OGWS 1.0
> >
> > > Soon,  the world is a brighter place.  Thousands of people are using
> > > OOGS, many of them not knowing it or caring, but nonetheless enjoying
> > > the very real benefits of a choice of
> > > mail/organizer/calendar/document-sharing clients.
> > >
> > > And they all live happily ever after.
> >
> > Can we get some singing and dancing munchcins for good measure?
> >
> > > I"ll leave it to you to decide where the plausibility ends and pure
> > > fantasy begins :-).  But stranger things have happened - and are
> > > happening right now in our midst, I would say.
> >
> > Well, fantasy will become reality at least in something getting done.
> > Its only up to everyone else to start working together on this backend
> > to define it properly.
> > I am not the most talented programmer in the world, but I am not sitting
> > still. The team that works with me are excited and forward thinking. We
> > will move to open up our backend to other languages, and just hope that
> > everyone else takes advantage of our efforts. If not, I know I did what
> > i could.
> >
> > Seek3r (aka Dan Kuykendall)
> 
> --
> David A. Cobb, Software Engineer, Public Access Advocate.  Public Key at:
> <http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=superbiskit>
> "Don't buy or use crappy software"
> "By the grace of God I am a Christian man,
>  by my actions a great sinner" -- The Way of a Pilgrim [R. M. French, tr.]
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Shane R. Landrum         address@hidden 
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GPG public key: http://cs.smith.edu/~slandrum/srl_pgpkey.txt