Re: More metaproblem

[Stephen Leake]

Eli Zaretskii <address@hidden> writes:

>> From: Karl Fogel <address@hidden>
>> For example, as far as I can see -- and I've looked, though maybe in the
>> wrong places -- there's never been a permanent sign anywhere, like on a
>> web page, telling developers when they should commit to release branches
>> versus when they should commit to master (trunk).
>
> See admin/notes/repo and admin/notes/commits.  What else is missing?

That says that there is such a thing as a "freeze". It does not say "the
trunk is currently frozen".

>> Sometimes trunk is locked down and most commits are supposed to go to
>> the current emacs-NN branch.
>
> Thats a thing of a distant past.  Trunk (a.k.a. "master") is nowadays
> never locked, but there are (usually short) periods before a new
> release branch is cut, when there's a "feature freeze", i.e. commits
> that introduce new features should not be pushed to master.

That's not what admin/notes/repo says:

    Sometime before the release of a new major version of Emacs
    a "feature freeze" is imposed on the trunk.  No new features may be
    added after this point.  This is usually some months before the release.

"some months" is not "short". (see below for suggested patch)

(there is also the issue that "trunk" is now spelled "master")

>> Other times it's not locked down.  And you're just supposed to know,
>> somehow, I guess by saving random bits of state gleaned from a
>> rather high-traffic mailing list.
>
> You need to read this list, yes.  Emacs is not the only project that
> uses this practice, though.  GDB is another one.  Publishing such
> ephemeral information on the developer's list is an established
> practice; posting that on Web pages is IMO worse, because this kind of
> information quickly becomes obsolete, and Google searches will then
> bring wrong info to people.

admin/notes/repo goes on:

    Consult emacs-devel to know exactly what kinds of changes are
    allowed on what branch at any time.

"consult" an email list can mean several things:

1) Search the archive to find the information

2) Post a question

3) Follow the list, and record the information privately

Strategy 1 is problematic; searching for "freeze" on
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?idxname=emacs-devel
turns up a couple start dates, but no end date, in the first page of
hits. Searching for '+from:"stefan monnier" freeze' does not change the
results, which appears to be a bug in the search engine.

Strategy 2 is annoying to the list.

Strategy 3 is problematic due to the fairly high volume on emacs-devel.
That could be improved by establishing a second list for "important
announcments", or using a unique identifier string in the email subject.

>
>> Emacs is not an easy project for newcomers or drive-by contributors.
>
> Which large and complex project _is_ easy for newcomers?

Good point. But there are still those (like me) with some experience who
are considering contributing; the issues raised here are barriers to
them.


Possible patch to admin/notes/repo:

--- a/admin/notes/repo
+++ b/admin/notes/repo
@@ -23,18 +23,17 @@ before possibly being merged to the trunk.

 Development is discussed on the emacs-devel mailing list.

-Sometime before the release of a new major version of Emacs
-a "feature freeze" is imposed on the trunk.  No new features may be
-added after this point.  This is usually some months before the release.
-
-Shortly before the release, a release branch is created, and the
-trunk is then free for development.
+Sometime before the release of a new major version of Emacs a "feature
+freeze" is imposed on the trunk, to prepare for creating a release
+branch.  No new features may be added to the trunk after this point,
+until the release branch is created. This freeze is announced on the
+emacs-devel mailing list, and not anywhere else.

 For example, "emacs-23" for Emacs 23.2 and later, "EMACS_23_1_RC" for
 23.1, "EMACS_22_BASE" for 22.x, and "EMACS_21_1_RC" for 21.x.

-Consult emacs-devel for exactly what kinds of changes are allowed
-on what branch at any time.
+You must follow emacs-devel to know exactly what kinds of changes are
+allowed on what branch at any time. Announcements about the freeze
+(and other important events) will contain "ANNOUNCE" in the subject.

 ** elpa



--
-- Stephe