Re: Ocean and the search for a Music Framework

[Jeff Teunissen]

Lars Sonchocky-Helldorf wrote:

> discuss-gnustep-bounces+lars.sonchocky-helldorf=bbdo-interone.de@gnu.org
> wrote on 03.03.2004 00:13:00:
> 
> > Marco Scheurer wrote:
> >
> > > On Mar 2, 2004, at 4:39 AM, Jeff Teunissen wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > > That is not at issue. What *is* at issue is whether or not the
> > > > developers of the MusicKit have permission from the copyright
> > > > holders (namely NeXT/Apple) to relicense said code under any
> > > > license at all.
> > >
> > > I think I addressed this, and that it is clear enough: you have
> > > permission if you obey to the MusicKit license. I don't understand
> > > how the fact that some files are copyrighted by X rather than Y
> > > changes anything.
> >
> > If the MusicKit developers have no explicit permission to place the
> > NeXT and Apple portions of the work under the MusicKit license, then
> > the license on the work as a whole is invalid.
> 
> Sorry, Jeff
> 
> but reading your mail I get more and more the impression that you are a
> troll*. Didn't you read the response from Leigh Smith
> <leigh@leighsmith.com> reagarding MusicKit Licensing? There Leigh
> clearly states that Musickit devs are in negotiations with Apple
> regarding licensing and also that Leigh added lots of those NeXT
> copyright statements himself.

A troll (troller, actually, but I'll assume you are referring to the misused
meaning "one who trolls [for flames]") is someone who posts inflammatory
information in order to cause other people to flame him/her. This would be a
wholly-inappropriate description of any of the messages I've posted to this
thread. In fact, your post was more a troll than mine--but I do not intend
to take the bait.

I responded to a message that was directed to me off-list, and was not aware
of the negotiations with Apple.

It is, in point of fact, an infringement of copyright for anyone who is not
Leigh Smith (a slight oversimplification) to distribute the MusicKit, and
perhaps even him, depending on what kind of license the NeXT and Apple code
is under. In case you were unaware, the default status of any and all
copyrightable works is "All Rights Reserved", which means you may do nothing
with them. If something is created by NeXT and there is 1. no copyright
notice in it and 2. no license grant, then you have absolutely no right to
use it beyond "fair use" doctrine.

If the MusicKit developers(/Leigh) succeed in getting the aforementioned
headers and/or code placed under the APSL(Apple Public Source License)
version 2, then the MusicKit becomes legally distributable free software
that happens to not be usable in any GPLed work without a special permission
grant from the author(s) of GPLed code used in the work. That is, the APSL
v2 is GPL-incompatible (but nonetheless, free software). This of course
assumes that the APSL v2 is itself compatible with the license under which
the rest of the MusicKit is placed, but I believe that if there is an
incompatibility that the MusicKit license that the MusicKit developers will
be willing to change the license so as to make it distributable.

If the negotiations fail, then the NeXT code in the MusicKit must be removed
for it to be legal to distribute (that "All Rights Reserved" thing).

> Please stop your FUD and leave your sinister attitude towards anything
> NeXT/Apple at home.

I have engaged in no FUD, merely stated the fact that the MusicKit, as it
stands today, is non-distributable.

Furthermore, I have no "sinister attitude" towards NeXT or Apple. They are,
for the most part, fine engineers and generally nice people...so I am
honestly baffled why you would attempt to paint me thus.

I *DO* have an honest disagreement with the attitude that whatever Apple do
to the Foundation and the AppKit are of necessity good things to copy in
GNUstep, and in fact I think it would be stupid to do many of those things
-- but that is something entirely different from a hatred of Apple the
company and/or its people; the former is a technical argument, the latter is
a philosophical and/or emotional one.

> )* maybe you are a nice guy in RL, but I don't know you privately, so
> everything you say on the list forms my impression of you.

Frankly, I don't really care *what* your impression of me is.

-- 
| Jeff Teunissen  -=-  Pres., Dusk To Dawn Computing  -=-  deek @ d2dc.net
| GPG: 1024D/9840105A   7102 808A 7733 C2F3 097B  161B 9222 DAB8 9840 105A
| Core developer, The QuakeForge Project        http://www.quakeforge.net/
| Specializing in Debian GNU/Linux              http://www.d2dc.net/~deek/