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Therese Godefroy |
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Subject: |
www/philosophy the-law-of-success-2.html |
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Date: |
Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:30:27 -0400 (EDT) |
CVSROOT: /webcvs/www
Module name: www
Changes by: Therese Godefroy <th_g> 21/09/08 16:30:27
Modified files:
philosophy : the-law-of-success-2.html
Log message:
Add breadcrumb; update to boilerplate 1.96; only list copyrightable
years; minor markup and style changes for clarity.
CVSWeb URLs:
http://web.cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewcvs/www/philosophy/the-law-of-success-2.html?cvsroot=www&r1=1.17&r2=1.18
Patches:
Index: the-law-of-success-2.html
===================================================================
RCS file: /webcvs/www/www/philosophy/the-law-of-success-2.html,v
retrieving revision 1.17
retrieving revision 1.18
diff -u -b -r1.17 -r1.18
--- the-law-of-success-2.html 28 Apr 2021 05:25:20 -0000 1.17
+++ the-law-of-success-2.html 8 Sep 2021 20:30:25 -0000 1.18
@@ -1,29 +1,39 @@
<!--#include virtual="/server/header.html" -->
-<!-- Parent-Version: 1.77 -->
+<!-- Parent-Version: 1.96 -->
+<!-- This page is derived from /server/standards/boilerplate.html -->
+<!--#set var="TAGS" value="speeches" -->
+<!--#set var="DISABLE_TOP_ADDENDUM" value="yes" -->
<title>The Law of Success 2.0: An Interview with Richard Stallman
- GNU Project - Free Software Foundation</title>
+<style type="text/css" media="print,screen"><!--
+.pict { width: 20em; height: auto; margin: 2em auto; }
+--></style>
<!--#include virtual="/philosophy/po/the-law-of-success-2.translist" -->
<!--#include virtual="/server/banner.html" -->
+<!--#include virtual="/philosophy/ph-breadcrumb.html" -->
+<!--GNUN: OUT-OF-DATE NOTICE-->
+<!--#include virtual="/server/top-addendum.html" -->
+<div class="article reduced-width">
<h2>The Law of Success 2.0: An Interview with Richard Stallman</h2>
-<p><em>[ This is an interview between Haegwan Kim and Richard
-M. Stallman in November 2010. ]</em>
-</p>
+<div class="infobox">
+<p><em>This interview was conducted by Haegwan Kim in November 2010.</em></p>
+</div>
-<p><img src="http://www.gnu.org/graphics/RMS.jpeg";
+<div class="pict">
+<img src="/graphics/RMS.jpeg"
alt=" [Photo of Richard Stallman] " title="Richard Stallman"
-width="259" height="194" class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-1761" /></p>
-
-<p>Haegwan Kim</p>
+width="259" height="194" />
+</div>
-<p>First, you mentioned that discussing success is not useful for you
+<p><b>Haegwan Kim:</b> First, you mentioned that discussing success is
+not useful for you
and that's really interesting to me. In this interview mainly I want to
talk about freedom and related issue. But before that, could you tell me
the reason that talking about success is not useful to you?</p>
-<p>Richard Stallman</p>
-
-<p>Because some activities are good for society and some are harmful for
+<p><b>Richard Stallman:</b> Because some activities are good for society
+and some are harmful for
society. Of course, many are neutral. If person A knows how to aim for
success, that may be good or bad for the rest of us. And I didn't set
out to be a success. I didn't set out to make a lot of money or become
@@ -37,14 +47,10 @@
sense it's a success. But when I look at it I don't ask,
am I a success? I ask, do users have freedom?</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Great to hear that. Can you tell me why you are so in favour of the
+<p><b>HK:</b> Great to hear that. Can you tell me why you are so in
favour of the
freedom?</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>Partly it's because I resent being pushed around. I resent anyone
+<p><b>RMS:</b> Partly it's because I resent being pushed around. I
resent anyone
giving me orders. Partly because I grew up in the US, where people were
taught to think about freedom—or at least were. I don't know if
any of the children are taught any of these things any more. Partly
@@ -62,33 +68,21 @@
<p>So working, improving that system meant taking advantage of freedom
all the time, so I came to appreciate freedom.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> Okay, I see.</p>
-<p>Okay, I see.</p>
+<p><b>RMS:</b> But that's not quite the end.</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> Okay.</p>
-<p>But that's not quite the end.</p>
-
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Okay.</p>
-
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>Because the community fell apart in the early 80s and it was no
+<p><b>RMS:</b> Because the community fell apart in the early 80s and it
was no
longer possible to have the freedom. So I saw the contrast
-between living in freedom and losing freedom, and I found non-freedom
+between living in freedom and losing freedom, and I found nonfreedom
disgusting. So I decided to do something to bring freedom back.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Can you tell me how…? You are now trying to bring freedom
+<p><b>HK:</b> Can you tell me how…? You are now trying to bring
freedom
back, which conversely means there's no freedom at the moment.</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>Yes. With regard to software. First of all, this is a big question.
+<p><b>RMS:</b> Yes. With regard to software. First of all, this is a big
question.
In regard to software, proprietary software does not respect users'
freedom because the program controls the users. If the users aren't free
to change a program and do so either individually or in groups
@@ -153,13 +147,9 @@
<p>Also with the freedom to distribute your modified version, the people
who don't know how to program can benefit.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>I understand a bit about freedom for software now.</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> I understand a bit about freedom for software now.</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>So if I'm using the free program and I make a change in it, which I
+<p><b>RMS:</b> So if I'm using the free program and I make a change in
it, which I
know how to do, then I could publish my modified version and then you.
Perhaps you're not a programmer; you would still be able to get the
benefit of the change I make. Not only that, you could pay somebody to
@@ -180,30 +170,18 @@
control the program then the program controls the users. That's
proprietary software and that is what makes it evil.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Sounds similar to Creative Commons—verifying the types of
+<p><b>HK:</b> Sounds similar to Creative Commons—verifying the
types of
copyrights.</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>Yes. Creative commons publishes various licences.</p>
-
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Yes. Do you agree with all those kind of activities on freedom?</p>
-
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>They don't have a position on that.</p>
+<p><b>RMS:</b> Yes. Creative commons publishes various licences.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> Yes. Do you agree with all those kind of activities on
freedom?</p>
-<p>Position?</p>
+<p><b>RMS:</b> They don't have a position on that.</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> Position?</p>
-<p>Creative commons licences grant the users varying amounts of freedom.
+<p><b>RMS:</b> Creative commons licences grant the users varying amounts
of freedom.
Two of their licences qualify as free by our criteria. Those are the
creative commons attribution licence and the attribution share-alike
licence, those. And I think maybe there's also the CC zero licence,
@@ -217,13 +195,9 @@
cooking—and recipes for cooking are a good examples because, as
I'm sure you know, cooks frequently share and modify recipes.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> Sure, yes.</p>
-<p>Sure, yes.</p>
-
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>And it would be a tremendous outrage to stop them. So in effect,
+<p><b>RMS:</b> And it would be a tremendous outrage to stop them. So in
effect,
cooks treat recipes as free. But let's look at some more works that are
used for practical jobs. Educational works are used for practical jobs;
to teach yourself or teach others. Reference works are used for
@@ -242,55 +216,35 @@
non-commercially redistribute exact copies, in other words the freedom
to share.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>I'm interested in what you're doing. You're travelling around the
+<p><b>HK:</b> I'm interested in what you're doing. You're travelling
around the
world, like me, and you're contributing to others, not for yourself.
And I love that way you live and I respect it so much. So I was just
wondering, how you describe yourself?</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>I describe myself as a free software activist.</p>
-
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Activist?</p>
+<p><b>RMS:</b> I describe myself as a free software activist.</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> Activist?</p>
-<p>Yes.</p>
+<p><b>RMS:</b> Yes.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> Activists means the ones who change the world?</p>
-<p>Activists means the ones who change the world?</p>
-
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>First of all, we haven't changed the whole world, not even in this
+<p><b>RMS:</b> First of all, we haven't changed the whole world, not
even in this
regard, we've only changed a part of it.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Ok.</p>
-
-<p>RMS</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> Ok.</p>
-<p>As you can see, most computer users are still running proprietary
+<p><b>RMS:</b> As you can see, most computer users are still running
proprietary
systems such as Windows and Macintosh. And then if they have
smartphones, those smartphones are running proprietary software and it
typically has malicious features too. We have a long way to go to
achieve victory. And the other thing is that what we have achieved, I
did not achieve by myself. But I did start this movement.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Your activities have lasted for a long time, what would be your
+<p><b>HK:</b> Your activities have lasted for a long time, what would be
your
advice for being an activist?</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>I was rather lucky, in a sense. I was in a position to do something
+<p><b>RMS:</b> I was rather lucky, in a sense. I was in a position to do
something
that would forward my cause just working by myself. As other people
showed up who were interested they could join. So it's generally good to
look for a way to do things that way, in other words don't set out at
@@ -299,13 +253,9 @@
support you, can achieve something, and by achieving something you can
attract the attention of others who might want to join.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Great idea.</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> Great idea.</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>In fact, I've read that advice in a book. I don't remember where,
+<p><b>RMS:</b> In fact, I've read that advice in a book. I don't
remember where,
because that was a long time ago, but it fit what I had alreasy done. I
can't say I thought of this as a general principle, but it did work well
in my case.</p>
@@ -321,53 +271,37 @@
soon and that way you'll spend your time getting a certain amount done
for your cause, which is better than nothing.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Fair enough.</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> Fair enough.</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>And of the ones who follow the raise-money-first path, those few that
+<p><b>RMS:</b> And of the ones who follow the raise-money-first path,
those few that
succeed in raising the money will find that their years of focusing on
making that money have changed their goals. By the time they have that
money they will be used to trying to do everything to get money. Few
people have the ability to turn around and start directing their efforts
toward something other than getting and keeping a lot of money.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Indeed. Can you tell me how did you gather great people when you
+<p><b>HK:</b> Indeed. Can you tell me how did you gather great people
when you
launched the Free Software Foundation?</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>I don't know if I always gathered great people. Some who came to us
+<p><b>RMS:</b> I don't know if I always gathered great people. Some who
came to us
were good and some were not but I couldn't tell very well in advance, I
didn't know how to judge that. But enough of them were good that they've
managed to achieve a lot.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>So did you gather people or did people automatically come to your
+<p><b>HK:</b> So did you gather people or did people automatically come
to your
place?</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>Mostly people had seen what we had already done and found it
+<p><b>RMS:</b> Mostly people had seen what we had already done and found
it
interesting, and they would either help or, in some cases, come back
when the FSF was hiring and we would say we were looking for someone to
hire. Maybe we knew them already—who was a good
programmer—by their contributing as a volunteer, so we knew if we
hired them, they would be good.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>I see. Thank you so much for your time. As a final question, I want
+<p><b>HK:</b> I see. Thank you so much for your time. As a final
question, I want
to ask you about what we should do to spread the freedom.</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>The big enemy of freedom is governments taking too much power over
+<p><b>RMS:</b> The big enemy of freedom is governments taking too much
power over
society. They do that with two excuses: the excuse is terrorists or
child pornographers. But we have to realise that anti-freedom is a
bigger danger than either of those. For instance, censoring the
@@ -390,21 +324,13 @@
that the US created. Governments around the world keep looking for more
power. The problem is, they have too much already.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>That's true. How can we get the power back from the governments?</p>
-
-<p>RMS</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> That's true. How can we get the power back from the
governments?</p>
-<p>I wish I knew.</p>
+<p><b>RMS:</b> I wish I knew.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
+<p><b>HK:</b> <i style="color: #505050">[Laughter]</i></p>
-<p>(Laughter)</p>
-
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>I do know something about how we can teach people the need for this.
+<p><b>RMS:</b> I do know something about how we can teach people the
need for this.
Governments get their power by focusing people's attention on some
secondary problem.</p>
@@ -430,14 +356,11 @@
Iraq, in which 4500 or so Americans were killed. So even if we only
consider who's more dangerous to Americans, the answer is Bush.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>(Laughter) People can't judge what's right or wrong when the
+<p><b>HK:</b> <i style="color: #505050">[Laughter]</i> People can't
+judge what's right or wrong when the
condition is getting complex and excited too much…</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>And that ignored the million or so Iraqis that Bush killed and that
+<p><b>RMS:</b> And that ignored the million or so Iraqis that Bush
killed and that
Bush prevented us from counting. But by preventing them from being
accurately counted, Bush made it possible for low estimates such as that
of Iraq Body Count to seem plausible.</p>
@@ -449,26 +372,20 @@
And whether they're doing that for BP or for Obama or both, it's
offensive to try to stop the public from knowing.</p>
-<p>HK</p>
-
-<p>Do you believe that the internet has the possibility to change this
+<p><b>HK:</b> Do you believe that the internet has the possibility to
change this
phenomenon?</p>
-<p>RMS</p>
-
-<p>That's a different question. The internet is useful for various
+<p><b>RMS:</b> That's a different question. The internet is useful for
various
things like sharing valuable information. But it's also useful for
surveillance. So the internet can be used for good things and bad
things. So how do we make sure that we are free to share? How do we
limit the surveillance? It's a matter of stopping the Government from
doing things that are unjust.</p>
-
-<p><em>Richard Stallman is a software freedom activist and the president
-of the Free Software Foundation.</em></p>
+</div>
</div><!-- for id="content", starts in the include above -->
<!--#include virtual="/server/footer.html" -->
-<div id="footer">
+<div id="footer" role="contentinfo">
<div class="unprintable">
<p>Please send general FSF & GNU inquiries to
@@ -486,13 +403,13 @@
to <a href="mailto:web-translators@gnu.org";>
<web-translators@gnu.org></a>.</p>
- <p>For information on coordinating and submitting translations of
+ <p>For information on coordinating and contributing translations of
our web pages, see <a
href="/server/standards/README.translations.html">Translations
README</a>. -->
Please see the <a
href="/server/standards/README.translations.html">Translations
-README</a> for information on coordinating and submitting translations
+README</a> for information on coordinating and contributing translations
of this article.</p>
</div>
@@ -513,7 +430,7 @@
There is more detail about copyright years in the GNU Maintainers
Information document, www.gnu.org/prep/maintain. -->
-<p>Copyright © 2010, 2013, 2019, 2021 Free Software Foundation, Inc.</p>
+<p>Copyright © 2010, 2021 Free Software Foundation, Inc.</p>
<p>This page is licensed under a <a rel="license"
href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/";>Creative
@@ -523,10 +440,10 @@
<p class="unprintable">Updated:
<!-- timestamp start -->
-$Date: 2021/04/28 05:25:20 $
+$Date: 2021/09/08 20:30:25 $
<!-- timestamp end -->
</p>
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-</div>
+</div><!-- for class="inner", starts in the banner include -->
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