Re: lilypond ./ChangeLog Documentation/bibliography...

[Stephen]

When Han-Wen said:

> > Let us assume that our users  know what they are doing, and respect their 
> > settings for browser resolution.

In terms of the Web Design page you site, that is a request not to use fixed 
width pages and let the page flow into what ever size browser the user has. 
It looks a little narrow to me too and if you do use a fixed width I think 
it looks nice when it is centered as it is on the YLE site you site.

Using the standard that the lines should not be more than twelve words or 
less that four, let's count the words per line on the Lilypond web page.

Under Dive into... and Ms. Manners there are about 8 words/line

Under News there are about 12.

Maybe if you expanded it so the Dive into ... and Ms. Manners were 12 
lines/page and centered it, it would look right again.

The image of lilypads by monet looks particuliarly bad when not centered.

Try looking at this possiblility too:

> people are using computers with 800x600, 1024x768, and 1280x1024 resolution 
> in greater numbers.  To be most accurate, you should check the server logs 
> for your Web site,>

If the Lilypond site had long columns like in a news article, line width 
would be more critical. Fewer lines makes it less likely the eye will be 
confused which line to go to next. My point it that the standards at a news 
site do not apply to Lilypond. Even in the documentation, the blank line 
between paragraphs, which you do not see in a news column, and the frequent 
examples prevent the columns of text from getting too tall, making it easier 
not to mistake which line we are on.

Similarily, the advice that Jennifer Kyrnin gives on 'Defining the Width of 
Your Site" does not necessarily apply equally to all sites. In particuliar, 
maybe we should heed the advantage sited for flexible width web sites:

> Flexible width pages vary in width depending upon how wide the browser 
> window is. This allows you to design pages that focus more on your 
> customers.>

The "Dive into ..." column is only 346 pixels wide, against the 
recommendation of a minimum of 400 pixels wide, so widening the page a 
little more and centerig it might immediately improve its look. Also it 
might be nice not to allow the words in the News column to touch the line 
between News and Quick Links. Although I like pages that flow into the 
entire browser window I have, because it reduces the amount of scrolling 
needed to read each page.

Stephen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Heikki Junes" <address@hidden>
To: "Han-Wen Nienhuys" <address@hidden>; <address@hidden>
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: lilypond ./ChangeLog Documentation/bibliography...


> Han-Wen Nienhuys wrote:
>
> > Heikki Johannes Junes wrote:
> >
> > > Modified files:
> > >     .              : ChangeLog     Documentation/bibliography: 
> > > index.html.in html-long.bst     stepmake/bin   : text2html.py 
> > > buildscripts   : mutopia-index.py
> > > Log message:
> > >     optimize width for 800x600, width=760px (continued).
> > Hello,
> >
> > can you fix/revert this?
>
> Actually, it was a fix. As an introduction, I wanted to find a reference 
> which would describe the subject:
>
>   http://webdesign.about.com/od/webdesign/a/aa080904.htm
>
> A brief extract:
>
>   "If the scan length of a line of text is longer than 10-12 words or 
> shorter than 4-5 words, it can be very difficult to read. This means that 
> readers with large or small browser windows will have trouble."
>
> >   All of a sudden the lily docs in Firefox start to look like attached. 
> > My screen is 1280x1024, and I want things to look OK on my 1600x1200 mac 
> > as well.
>
> > Let us assume that our users  know what they are doing, and respect their 
> > settings for browser resolution.
> >
> > Likewise for lilypond.org .  Can you explain your changes?
>
> Let me continue from the point mentioned in the above extract. Take,
> for example, page:
>
> http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.7/Documentation/user/out-www/lilypond/Example-templates.html#Example-templates
>
> There will appear 25 words per line on average in a 1280x1024 flat screen, 
> and even more in a 1600x1200 screen. Let me describe an analog situation 
> considering newspapers.
>
> Think that you would get in the morning a newspaper whose lines would span 
> the total width of the paper. How would you feel like reading it? My 
> experience with a 1600x1200 screen has been that it is tiring to read a 
> very long line -- and in the end of the line you jump to the next line, 
> which may easily be a wrong one.
>
> I cannot do better that the great newspapers, which have stuck to 800px 
> width:
>
>  LeMonde: http://www.lemonde.fr/
>  BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/
>  TIME: http://www.time.com/time/
>
> In addition, they have several paragraphs.
>
> Sometimes, you seed a good mixture of a full width and 800 px width:
>
>  YLE (like BBC of Finland): http://www.yle.fi/
>
> Even music scores has "paragraphs" -- just take away all the bar lines and 
> you will recognize the effect of long lines.
>
> What is the direction in which you would like to fix/revert? Currently, 
> the logical structure of the web pages have been described, but the 
> readability of the pages is not quaranteed.
>
> - Heikki
>
>
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