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Re: Reply to list [was: Different key maps in different dired buffers]


From: Emanuel Berg
Subject: Re: Reply to list [was: Different key maps in different dired buffers]
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2016 03:40:08 +0200
User-agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux)

Bob Proulx <address@hidden> writes:

> Pragmatically the bug reporting lists can't
> be reply only on the mailing lists.
> Because we don't require bug reporters to
> subscribe before posting bug reports.
> We don't require bug reporters to subscribe
> first. Doing so would be a burden and would
> alienate bug reporters.

That's right!

> Because the bug reporting lists are open and
> need to include the original sender this
> carries over to other lists too. Like this
> help-gnu-emacs list. Should it require people
> to be subscribed? That is more of a gray area
> since it isn't a bug reporting list.
> But people writing for help are almost the
> same as bug reporters. So by default help
> lists get the same treatment as bug lists.

There should not be any such requirements -
just the web form "input your data here, verify
that you are human, wait for a mail, input the
code and come back" all that makes my stomach
turn.

Unless I'm desperate for help (like with the
GMT - Generic Mapping Tools - they only have
a forum) I turn around when I'm asked to do
that, rather than to do it.

> But what about discussion lists? At some
> point maintainers of individual projects may
> state a policy for their own project. And so
> there isn't a 100% uniform policy across all
> of the mailing lists.
> Some lists.{non,}gnu.org lists are one way
> and some another way.

People shouldn't be so petty about their
projects! Projects are great fun and sometimes
useful but they shouldn't be a secluded
brotherhood "we know what it is about" than
shuns the darkness of the night...

> I would hate to annoy them with a second
> copy.

It is not that annoying. With Gnus and mail
splitting, you can get away with the extra mail
like this:

    (setq nnmail-split-methods
          '(
            ("mail.ml-ooa" 
"\\(To\\|Cc\\):.*\\(address@hidden|address@hidden|address@hidden)")
            ("mail.misc"   "")) )

Even if you don't, it isn't terrible.
The important think is to send the
psychological message virtually immediately,
yes there are people, they may not agree, they
may be imperfect in many ways including solving
your issue, but keep working, keep working with
them, and the problem will be solved with time
and effort.

> Additionally there is the problem of the News
> to Email gateway. (Which coincidentally I see
> had a backlog of old messages push through
> today.) Many people read on the News side of
> things and post there. I think for them it
> would be quite surprising to get an email
> copy of something they posted by news.
> However this is a mailing list and not a news
> group. People reading the news group have to
> expect that they are still participating in
> a mailing list.

Some people may say, the best way to do mailing
lists is with Gnus and Gmane, which turns them
into newsgroups in all essence. And those
people might have good cause to say that...

>>> I don't understand why people think
>>> "recipient might get two copies" is worse
>>> than "recipient might get no copies".
>>> Especially when the former issue is
>>> trivially avoided by Mailman or MUA
>>> duplication suppression.
>>>
>> I fully agree.
>
> I completely disagree.
>
> Mailman duplication suppression is mostly
> non-functional for this issue.

What about my solution - does that work? (OK,
not everyone uses Gnus.)

Well, obviously we should try to make it as
pleasant as possible for our users. On the
other hand, to get two copies of help isn't
a problem! If people hit the ceiling in
frustration because of that perhaps they should
take a leave from computers and do Buddhism for
half a year, and then come back...

> And so we have an imperfect system that we
> simply have to learn to live with regardless
> of the problems. Even with the problems it is
> much better than a web forum.

Indeed. Tho there can be a gateway in between
that as well - the future of computing is
interface-agnostic!

Why not have the exact same material accessible
as a mailing list, as a Gmane newsgroup, as
a Usenet newsgroup, as a web forum, and as
a Facebook whatever-they-call-it! This isn't
hard to do, well, not impossible anyway. (With
Facebook politics may be a problem.)

Recall there is already gnu-emacs-help (the
listbot), there is gmane.emacs.help (Gmane),
and there is gnu.emacs.help (Usenet).

Is there a "GNU web forum" software? On Usenet,
there is rec.bicycles.tech - and here is the
same thing, as a web forum!

    http://www.cyclebanter.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8

-- 
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