[Top][All Lists]

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Guix and FSDG

From: bill-auger
Subject: Re: [GNU-linux-libre] Guix and FSDG
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:29:41 -0500

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:31:45 +0100 Jean wrote:
> > On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 08:05:50 +0100 Jean wrote:  
> > > It is
> > > system of preparing software on the computer, but is not
> > > distribution.  
> > On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 08:05:50 +0100 Jean wrote:  
> > > Distribution should have capacity to be duplicated  
> > 
> > that is a rather narrow categorization of a distribution -  
> I never said that
> is the only characteristic of distribution. 
> Both can be duplicated, so I don't see what you are pointing
> out

because you claimed that a source-based distro is "not a
distribution"; i was pointing out thet whether in source or
binary form, it is a distribution just the same

those preparations are really the majority the of work involved
in making a distro, and they are what most uniquely distinguish
that distro from some other - after the preparations are
complete, all that remains is to run the build scripts, which is
essentially a "hands-free" procedure, requiring little to no
effort nor knowledge on the part of the person who does that
final step - it make no practical difference whether that person
is one of the distro maintainers or the end-user - when the
distro maintainers provide ready-to-use binary packages, that is
merely a convenience to the end-user, albeit a convenience that
people have come to take for granted

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:31:45 +0100 Jean wrote:
> Don't let users download
> non-free software to make free software out of it.

parabola devs strongly disagree with that - we want everyone to
have access to everything that the ditsro devs had - no one
should be required to do so, and perhaps distros should not
provide those non-FSDG sources; but you must "let them download
non-free software", because that is one's personal business, and
there is no way to prevent it anyways - permitting something to
happen is very different than requiring that it be so

if there is anything vague to clarify regarding the FSDG on this
issue, it is not about "allowing" nor "requiring" to download
non-FSDG sources - it is clear that FSDG distro can not require
that - it should also be clear that there is no way to prevent
it; so "allowing" is granted as non-negotiable - the vagueness
is only the question of: "does publishing liberation scripts (in
any form) necessarily recommend that they be used", and "would
recommending that they be used, run afoul with the FSDG?"

in order to be useful, they all necessarily require the non-FSDG
sources to be acquired by the user of the script somehow; but
its not obvious that merely publishing them would be a
recommendation of their use

thats the only reason i made that subtle distinction about the
core system component being ready to automate the download and
execution of liberation scripts, or if that must be a
non-standard, manual exercise, unlikely to be done inadvertently
- it not because they are fundamentally different from a freedom
perspective; but that they are different from the "recommending"
or "assisting" perspective

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:31:45 +0100 Jean wrote:
> If I, as user, get the liberating scripts
> It gives
> me chance to have it on my mediums, and even the chance to
> share non-free software.

to be fair, thats not quite correct - it is the authors of
that software, that gave you the chance to download it
and share it - what the liberation scripts give you, is the
ability to clean them up per the FSDG, and to use them in that

we must be very precise not to confuse "software that does not
meet the FSDG" with "non-free software" - the FSDG is entirely
pertaining to what distro maintainers must do on behalf of users;
so that users can get a 100% free system without taking those
preparation steps themselves - currently all FSDG satisfy that,
or they would not be endorsed in the first place

this issue is more subtle - it is asking: "is it permissible for
distro maintainers to allow, recommend, or assist users in
accomplishing those FSDG tasks for themselves?" - those things
will indeed involve handling "software that does not meet the
FSDG"; but that is very different than "obtaining any non-free
information for practical use", which is all that the FSDG
actually says on the matter

On Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:31:45 +0100 Jean wrote:
> such could/should be packaged in the distribution for anybody
> to be able to prepare the distribution, I have never mentioned
> any elites

this is probably just a language confusion - that is interpreted
as: "the liberation scripts should be used only for the purpose
of maintaining the distro" - if that is the case, then it follows
that those scripts could be used only by the distro maintainers,
and that users should not use them for any purpose, because
users do not "prepare the distro" - that puts the distro
maintainers in an elite position

i dont think that was your intended meaning - i think we all
agree that users should be able to help the distro maintainers to
"prepare the distro" - in order to do that, they must run the
liberation scripts, and they must acquire the non-FSDG sources

reply via email to

[Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread]