Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages

[João Távora]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> On 12.11.2022 17:20, João Távora wrote:
>> On Sat, Nov 12, 2022, 14:36 Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru
>> <mailto:dgutov@yandex.ru>> wrote:
>>     On 12.11.2022 12:11, João Távora wrote:
>>      >    Saint Ignucius then also asked the maintainers to stop maintaining
>>      >    their s.el.  Let's presume they did listen.
>>     Did they?
>> Did the whole fairy-tale schtick fly over your head? None of this
>> has happened yet: I'm just presenting a plan. If people play along
>> is not up to me.
>
> It would seem useful to do some dev-rel work in advance. Or maybe now?

Yes, maybe.  But maybe we should first agree on the plan.  We're not
there yet: Richard has a completely different idea, that I don't think
is technically sound.

I've tried to explain my original plan again.  It would seem you have
read it: do you understand it?  Do you see anything technically wrong
with it?  If you don't then maybe you could help convince others that
it's a viable plan

> Otherwise, we've just acquired some extra complexity in the reader,
> xref and elisp completion code, while the anticipated benefits are
> very slow to materialize.

I'm not sure the complexity is that much (it was a long time ago, but I
believe it was reasonably low).  But you're right, the benefits of
shorthands so far are just programmer convenience for libraries outside
of Emacs.  I've enjoyed using them, and I would guess a small number of
programmers are also taking advantage of them them in some side
projects, judging from a quick GitHub code search.

> Half a year has passed now since Emacs 28.1's release, and even longer
> than that since the "shorthands" have been installed on master, and I
> don't see a single mention of them on s.el's issue tracker.
>
> Ditto for dash.el and f.el.

For the record, I think you're completely right.  But hey, this is
Emacs, it moves slowly.  Again, if you understand the plan I put forth
and you think it's viable, then speak up and let's get things moving.

João