on hyperlinks (bookmarks)

[Jean Louis]

* Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> [2020-11-08 19:51]:
> > > It does presume a 'segregationist' mind-set
> > > that I clearly have and many on this list don't,
> > > ie. it didn't occur to me that people find it
> > > desirable to mix up bookmark types.
> 
> 1. If there are no specific handlers, so the default
>    handler is always used, then there are, generally
>    speaking, no bookmark types.  The most-default
>    default behavior is to treat all bookmarks the same.
> 
> 2. Even when there are multiple bookmark types (and
>    there are, even in `emacs -Q' - Info bookmarks,
>    for instance), nothing _requires_ someone to "mix"
>    bookmarks of different types in the same bookmark
>    file.

And if I use database I am using types of bookmarks. Even if
everything is "together" in display it need not be. I could decide to
show only specific type of bookmarks. So they are together but it is
up to me or user to get different display, they are together as
collection in one database table and they can be always separate in
displaying or using them.

> then no, that has nothing particular to do with me
> or Bookmark+.  That's basic to the vanilla-Emacs
> design of bookmarks, and it has been so since Day
> One.  There's a default behavior, AND you can add
> bookmark types with their own behavior.

That I understood. And I am trying to understand from bookmark+ how is
that done.

> > In computing, a hyperlink, or simply a link, is a reference to data
> > that the user can follow by clicking or tapping.[1] A hyperlink points
> > to a whole document or to a specific element within a
> > document. Hypertext is text with hyperlinks. The text that is linked
> > from is called anchor text. A software system that is used for viewing
> > and creating hypertext is a hypertext system, and to create a
> > hyperlink is to hyperlink (or simply to link). A user following
> > hyperlinks is said to navigate or browse the hypertext.
> > 
> > Emacs bookmarks, bookmarks+ or diredc bookmarks or any similar system
> > fit into that definition of hypertext systems. Merging them together
> > or having unified search and filtering interface is useful.
> 
> Yes, to all of that.  The main characteristics of
> Emacs bookmarks are these, IMO:
> 
>  1. They're persistent.
>     (They don't have to be, but they can be.)

Yes, they are. Only they are designed for single users, not for
collaborative sharing.

Bookmark+ has export option. Files can be shared really, but that is
not fast collaborative sharing. There are many things inside for me to
learn and adopt good ideas I missed myself.

In my Hyperscope system that I am preparing, hyperlinks (bookmarks)
are shareable and global. That increases collective IQ. Engelbart:
https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/172/130/

Users with access to database can then collaboratively share common
knowledge and references. 

Imagine when we work in local area network, several users translating
files and need references. New reference is added as bookmark and all
other users have reference without updating or sharing files as
reference is simply accessed through common database. It implies that
some files are shared and accessible between users that bookmarks can
access them. While Emacs is one interface to such bookmarks, there can
be various other interfaces.

>  2. They can record nearly anything.

It would be good that every structured software or information
provides clear way of finely grained referencing. Reference:
https://www.dougengelbart.org/content/view/116/#7j

Example from that page shows on the right side references 7j and 7k:

THE BASIC "HYPER" CHARACTERISTICS - where embedded objects called
links can point to any arbitrary object within the document, or within
another document in a specified domain of documents - and the link can
be actuated by a user or an automatic process to "go see what is at
the other end," or "bring the other-end object to this location," or
"execute the process identified at the other end." (These executable
processes may control peripheral devices such as CD ROM, video-disk
players, etc.)  7j

HYPERDOCUMENT "BACK-LINK" CAPABILITY - when reading a hyperdocument
online, a worker can utilize information about links from other
objects within this or other hyperdocuments that point to this
hyperdocument - or to designated objects or passages of interest in
this hyperdocument.  7k

That feature for every paragraph to get specific #name in WWW is I
think not supported not even in Org mode, but it should be, especially
in Org mode. Koutliner from GNU Hyperbole could have improved HTML
export and easily provide the feature with back references.

Many PDF readers do not support specific --goto-page --goto-line
--goto-search options. If they do, they do not have a built in
back-referencing system that user can simply press a key and obtain
the book mark specification, something like <PAGE:12 LINE:32> but they
should have.

Programmers and document creators could improve collective IQ by
providing back referencing features.

Example of obvious lack of such feature is email reference
ID. References are mostly used by software, and there are almost no
functions for humans. I would like to be able, when reading email, to
obtain the back link which I can then store somewhere as bookmark so
that I can come back to that specific email, specific line or marked
text in the email. Emails are very constant documents when on file
system, perfect for bookmarking. But we do not have those features
almost in no email client. For those who use Maildirs we can use
direct jump to specific files on file system and read them as
emails. For those using mboxes I think there are no such referencing
possibilities in email readers.

In Emacs we can get bookmark with {C-x r m RET} for the file at the
point. It is useful and it just needs easy sharing. Emacs works on
multi-user systems but is not designed for multi-users. To share
bookmarks one would need either to copy bookmark files or provide some
web page or transmit one by one. By sharing or having possibility to
share such as through datbase or imaginable shared bookmark feature
then every household or group or company or organization member can
get bookmarks or hyperlinks assigned to his space or could enter into
the collection of bookmarks that other related persons created.

`eww' lacks function to bookmark specific page on specific line. I can
of course add eww bookmark with `w' but that does not reference
specific line or specific search on the page.

If there are no #names it becomes impossible for many browsers to
obtain finely grained reference or back link. For `eww' it would be
relatively easy to do that feature and include it in {C-x r m RET} to
be bookmarked by Emacs system, not eww system.