Re: [Freetype] Re: PS Type1 vs. TrueType

[Vadim Plessky]

Hello David!

On Friday 13 July 2001 11:30, David Turner wrote:
|   > Is "PostScript Type1" rendering is free of such *surprises*?
|
|   I don't know, I'm unsure that the MS patent is TrueType specific.
|   This needs careful review of the patent, and I lack the time to
|   do that currently..

If patent is not TrueType-specific, than MS can sue Adobe [Type1] (sigh...) 
and Bitstream [Speedo], as they both do some "gray-level processing of grid 
fitted glyphs"...
Besides, Ghostscript does it as well (I guess it uses own AA)
Looking at all this and taking into consideration that MS is not sueing Adobe 
and Bitstream, I hope there is no patent infregment here...

From other side, Adobe and MS have now cross-licensing agreement, so who 
knows?..  
|
|   > I found that with recent FreeType release, FT 2.0.3, and AA enabled (in
|   > XFree86), rendering quality of Type1 fonts is very good.
|   > So, may be it's time to use Type1 fonts instead of TrueType?
|   > Are there any patents surrounding rendering of Type1 fonts?
|
|   Well, the auto-hinter has been rather significantly enhanced in 2.0.3,
|   though there is still more work to do (after all, we live in an unperfect
|   world :-)
|
|   I'm currently working on adding native Type 1 support to FT2, as well
|   as a new auto-hinting sub-system (works better, but also a lot slower
|   than the current one :-()

It would be *very nice* to have support for native hints.
From other side, I think that (thanks to Open Source) we [users from 
different countries] can contribute to auto-hinting algorithm.
I was especially struggling with 2 Cyrillic letters, "?" and "?"
 May be, I can send you these letters (.eps? disassembled T1 instructions? ) 
and you can look how they can be fitted into existing auto-hinter?
well, when you have *autohinted* letter and *manually hinted*, you can check 
the difference and see what was missing. 

|
|   > ***
|   > I was trying to recall why I stopped using Type1 fonts. To be correct,
|   > I have tried to recall why I was *never* using Type1 fonts running
|   > Windows. (I am running Linux from Aug.2000, while I was Windows user
|   > since 1989-1990) Explantations are very simple:
|   > - Adobe Type Manager costs money, and it is more than $100 (ATM Deluxe)
|   > with good selection of fonts.
|
|   Actually, ATM is now distributed as a free plug-in on Windows and Mac.
|   It has also been integrated within Windows 2000, Me and XP I believe,
|   so these OSes already support Type 1 fonts natively !!

checked Adobe site. I see: "get Acrobat reader", "get Acrobat eBook reader", 
"download SVG viewer", "download Atmosphere". Obviously, no link to "download 
ATM".. And no links to dwonload for free "Miriad" or "Minion" fonts.. Have I 
missed something?
Yes, ATM is integrated into Windows 2000 and XP (don't know Me), but majority 
of users are on Win95/98, and I doubt (due to Passport services from MS, new 
licensing policy of MS, etc.) that XP will get popularity. So, ATM and PS 
Type1 are not available to , say, 80%-85% of Windows users.
 
|
|   > - there were no good Cyrillic fonts (1993-1995) available in Type1
|   > format, with good hinting. Adobe never localized ATM for Russian
|   > market, so it was really not an option at all.
|
|   That's probably the biggest problem now..

Yes, copyright issues are not clear. But font outlines are not copyrightable 
in US, right? So finally I can hint manually necessary outlines, and put them 
for free download on server in US. :-)
Not sure about other countries, though.

|
|   > At a moment:
|   > - *free* Type1 rasterizer is part of XFree86, Type1 fonts supported by
|   > FreeType2
|
|   Yes, and anti-aliased too. Xft is not about TrueType only.. there seems
|   to be confusion about that in the XRender documents available on the
|   web :-)

Probably, confusion is coming from the fact that good *free* Type1 fonts are 
rare. And you can copy TrueType fonts from Windows partition.
I agree with you - I was asked if it's posisble to enable AA for Type1 fonts 
(on KDE-general list). And it seems person was surprised to hear "yes" :))
  
|
|   > - URW fonts, part of GhostScript distribution, are of rather good
|   > quality. They are limited to Latin-1 and Latin-2 encodings, but it's
|   > better than nothing. At leats, those fonts are free and do not require
|   > licensing. -there are some Cyrillic fonts available nowdays, and it's
|   > possible to hint them for better rendering quality.
|
|   Be careful not to enter into copyright violation issues. If the fonts
|   are under the GPL, that's OK. For the newest fonts available with XFree86
| 4 (i.e. the "Lucidux" family of fonts), I think things are a bit different.

I have checked, URW fonts are GPL'ed.
What kind of license "Lucidux" fonts have? I thought XFree has general *open* 
license (don't know wether it's GPL or MIT-X11).
Are things different nowdays? Then how distributors (like GNU/Debian) include 
this stuff? Or they do not include?
|
|   Some people on the Render list should be able to give more information
|   on these..

I cc: XFree FONTS list, can somebody who is aware about fonts coming with XF, 
comment on this?

|   > Well, Type1 will not find its way to Windows (already...), but there
|   > are good opportunities on Linux/UNIX'es. I found that hinting process
|   > for Type1 fonts is much more simple than for TrueType, and it can be
|   > done (even by one person) in realistic timeframe.
|
|   Definitely, definitely, definitely :o)
|
|   > What do you think about this?
|   > Does TrueType have some advantages over Type1, especially when you
|   > *disabled* TrueType Bytecode interpreter (due to patent issues...) ?
|
|   Yes, the Type 1 format inherits from many of the annoyances of the
|   Postscript language, which means:
|
[...]
|   The "OpenType Outline" format is really good, because its embeds
|   a CFF font with other important tables (like Unicode charmaps,
|   OpenType Layout extensions, etc..) that cannot be easily fitted
|   in a Type 1 font, and can be parsed much more easily (they're
|   binary, pre-sorted, etc..). I find it a lot better than TrueType
|   itself..
|
|   And yes, CFF and OpenType are supported by FT2. We just need the
|   tools to convert our fonts to them..

well, latest version of FontLab, 3.1 (www.fontlab.com) can do this.
It also can convert Type1 hints to TrueType (I guess they do some kind of 
*compilation* of high-end hints into TrueType bytecode).
Problem is that it costs $400, and I am not confident now that I can spend so 
much money on it...
It [FontLab 3.1] also can create Multiple Master fonts, but MM support was 
dropped out of OpenType, so I don't know if it's really handy.

|
|   Now, if someone wants to sponsor the development of such tools,
|   I'm available as a software consultant. That's just not my current
|   priority with FreeType.
|

I would like to find authors of FontLab - it was developed by several guys 
from St.Peterburg (Russia).
Don't know what they are doing now. I do not think that selling boxed version 
of font editor is a good business model. May be, they can open source some 
part of it :-)
// me, just dreaming

|   Regards,
|
|   - David

-- 
Best Regards,

Vadim Plessky
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