Re: First Impressions of GNUStep

[cehardin]

On Sunday, Jun 15, 2003, at 11:39 Pacific/Honolulu, Raphael Bosshard 
wrote:

> Hello there!
>
> I just recently discovered GNUStep, so some of the impressions may be 
> inaccurate or even wrong, but people judge by first impressions. And 
> because you can't gain some first impressions on GNUStep again, I will 
> try to provide you with the thoughts and impressions of a first time 
> GNUStep user.
>
> (There was a thread in the mailing list archives, the title was 
> something like "Why has GNUStep not as many users as KDE or Gnome" or 
> something alike. This mail also tries to answer that question and 
> tries provide some ideas deal with these "problems".)
>
> Everything written here is my opinion, so please, take no offence.
>
> First Impressions:
> - Where is the taskbar, dammit? It's quite a change if you are used to 
> Gnome (in my case) or KDE. Heck, even OSX has a "taskbar" these days.

I'm working on something in these lines.  It is a dock which looks NeXT 
like but behaves more Os X like.

> - Windows covering other windows of the same application. OSX (and 
> partly MS Windows with windows that don't apprear in the taskbar) has 
> the same problem: There are two problems with this situation: You have 
> to know that there is a window beneath the window. And to bring this 
> window to the top, you must first move the covering windows.
> Neither Gnome nor KDE have this "problem" because the only windows not 
> appearing in the taskbar are modal.

On OS X the "solution" is to use the APPLE~ key to cycle between 
windows of the current application.  It's really the quickest way, much 
better than trying to click on a taskbar button.  Then there's the 
APPLE-Tab, which does interapp cycling.  GNUstep should have similar 
characteristics IMO.  ALT-TAB works like crap using window maker and 
there is no equivalent of the APPLE~.
In short, you bring up a good point here

> (This one is quite tricky. Have to talk to some of the other students 
> tomorrow on how to solve this.  Do it like KDE, all windows in the 
> taskbar? or like OSX, a single icon for the applications brings all 
> windows to front. But how to access covered windows in this case? 
> Tricky...)

As I mentioned before, Os X does this with APPLE~, it works awesome.   
I think gnustep should have a similar keyboard command for intra-app 
window cycling.

> - Strange menubar (NSMenu). Perhaps it's just me, but it gets always 
> in my way. I'd prefere a OSX solution. The menubar (in my humble 
> conditioned opinion) should stick somewhere where it doesn't interfere 
> with the other application windows. And it should probably be 
> horizontal aligned - it's more desktop-space preserving this way.


Oh goodness, here we go.  This is a religious issue around these 
parts....

> I don't see the use of tear-off/detachable menues. GTK had/has the 
> same feature but they may be going to disable it per default. (There 
> was a discussion about that topic a while ago, but I don't know what 
> the current oppinion is)

They work very well with vertical menus, they complement each other.

> - Applications: There are very few native GNUStep-Applications and 
> there is no "killer-application" that would propagate GNUStep. But 
> maybe there will appear some opensource/free software OSX applications 
> that can be ported to GNUStep. Who knows.

A web browser would be nice.

> (I'd like to try a native GNUStep-Browser, probably with khtml - Apple 
> already did a great job by providing the wrappers to ObjC.)
>
> - Look and Feel. GNUStep feels and looks like a desktop of the 
> nineties. Maybe it should follow the path of OSX. Or try something 
> completly new. But that is just the opinion of an ignorant, 
> un-enlightend and stupid hollow head.

another religious topic around these parts.

> Splitting the GNUStep-Project into two seperate projects (GNUStep 
> Framework and GNUStep Desktop) would be a good idea.

Interesting....

> Last, but not least: GNUStep is no eye-candy. Really. Maybe a new 
> default theme would help here. Or some new icons. There was an 
> interesting proposal at OSNews some time ago. Maybe some of Eugenia's 
> ideas could be incorporated.

Yes some better icons would be nice... i still have those new ones I 
made back in December which nobody seemed to want....

> Questions:
> - How difficult would it be to implement gnome-vfs-like features. 
> Could gnome-vfs even used for stuff like smb/bzip/ftp-browsing?
>
> - Does GNUStep intent to support freedesktop.org?
>
> - Should GNUStep be a unix-hacker only desktop or also a desktop for 
> Uncle Tom?

I think it can be for both.

> - What is the state of Apple's NextStep-extentions like drawers? Do 
> you plan to implement them?

Are drawers patented?

> I hope you don't take my heretic thoughts to serious.


i hope others don't as well.....
Discussion is GOOD and should be encouraged.

> Have fun,
> Raphael
>
>
>
>
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