Re: Of applications and documents

[Tima Vaisburd]

Hi Dave,

I'm glad to see your thoughts about Unix desktop UI, I've been thinking
about it for quite a while.

On Tuesday 03 June 2003 05:36, David Adam Bordoley wrote:

[...]
> 2. The shell is the base application that provides the basic menus, keeps
> track of user metadata (size and location of the window) and monitors the
> viewed file for changes (renaming, if it has been moved etc.)
> 3. The view is a plugin that shows the content of the current location in
> its window. [...]

Do you mean "the view draws itself in a window provided by the shell,
i.e. by different process"? That is one application is embedded into another,
and this, I think, could be very powerful. This is what I want myself.

I would expect you saying something about Konqueror of KDE then.
You might not like it, but at least it deserves an analysis, they went a long 
way in the direction of embedding.

> These three things can/probably should be 3 different processes.

Yes, that's what I want too. The view (editor!) is an executable, not a dll.

I can imagine a system based on these principles, but this is more difficult 
to do compared to what's common right now. It would make sense to do only if 
the environment provides a better user experence, something new.

IMHO the concept "everything in one window" can be such an experience.

> > I'd rather agree with Steve Jobs ;) - reduce the clutter.
> > I have no problems with transformations inside windows.
>
> ACtually this is really bad.

Let me first tell why I think it would not be bad, really :)
Most UI environments model a document as a sheet of paper.
One sheet - one window. If the number of these sheets exceeds
three,  this isn't convenient any more. I myself get distracted, for example.

Instead, I propose a window to be a model of a _pile_ of sheets on the desk.
There's just one upper sheet that's visible, all others are "below".
Second window - second pile. That's how I used to work with papers - two
piles, never more :)

Similar to internet browser, only you can edit.

Of couse, _anything_ can be at the top of a pile, and here the embedding
of editors comes right to the point.

> Now most of  us are fairly familiar with file paths and this is why we
> prefer the later.
> However if the goal is to make the lives of everyday users easier well than
> not using a "spacial finder" is really failing our users (speaking of
> linux/free software in general)...

Here I have to say - I disagree.
I'm interested in new desktop environment because I _myself_ is dissatisfied
with the current one. I'm thinking of myself. I'm writing for myself. I 
presume if something annoys me, it will annoy other users as well. If I work 
with something extensively (something basic enough, like switching 
windows/apps) and like it, it will be good for everyone too.

> ...by forcing them to work harder and learn
> abstract concepts as oppose to just manipulating things on the screen.

My experience shows that abstract concepts are really behind everything,
"just manipulating things on the screen" included. BTW I remember my deep 
disgust when I first switched to MS Windows 3.1 after Unix workstation. Keep 
clicking, moving something on the screen, my wrist got tired pretty soon, 
after half an hour no work done yet..


Tima.