Re: [Adonthell-general] Inventory/Items

[cirrus]

Kai Sterker wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 28 May 2002 10:01:39 +0200 address@hidden wrote:
> 
> > EQUIPABLE:
> [...]
> > All of the above can be equiped and have no effect on their own, if
> > they do not hold any enchantments
> 
> I would think that stuff like gloves, cloaks and boots would have some
> armour bonus as well. The rest wouldn't have any use though, unless
> enchanted. I also agree that it might be good to shorten the list a bit,
> so the number of power-ups a character can wear at the same time isn't
> too huge. Of course, this can also be controlled by the number of
> available items. If there are few and/or if they are difficult to
> aquire, it doesn't matter if there are plenty of slots.
> 
> As far as the GUI goes. I guess you'd have some sort of paper doll next
> to the backpack. And if you 'use' an appropriate item in the backpack,
> it'll appear on the paper doll.
> 
> > The following are the combat relevant items. Whenever they are equiped
> > they modify one of your stats. Of course you can only equip one armour
> > at a time. Because it makes programming easier and leaves the player
> > with more strategic choices I would allow the player to equip one
> > ranged weapon, one shield and one melee weapon at the same time.
> 
> Agreed. Maybe we should do some differentiation behind the scenes
> though. For example, the shield would only be active (i.e. apply it's
> bonus), if wielding a one-handed weapon.
> 
> > ATTACK ITEMS:
> >
> > I would suggest that we do not use a fixed button for attacks and one
> > for spells  (for example) . Instead we should use a more or less
> > variable approch: A character has 2 (or maybe 3, though we should keep
> > the number of buttons low, so adonthell can be played with a game pad)
> > attack buttons, which are in fact just slots where items can be
> > equiped. These attack items are the fighting feats, as well as spells,
> > songs and the likes. A character starts the game with the two fighting
> > feats ranged attack and melee attack. Both have no prequesites. As he
> > progresses throughout the game, he can learn spells, songs and further
> > fighting skills, which he can equip.
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> > BACKPACK ITEMS : these include books, keys, gems, herbs and all kinds
> > of other icons that can not be equiped or 'used'. These items are
> > stored in the backback, they are not assigned to any one of the
> > characters. Of course all the other items can also be put in the
> > backpack (which is in fact the party inventory) but then no character
> > profits from them.
> 
> Basically, the backpack would be the storage for most items, unless
> equipped. Depending on the race, there could be a
> spell-/song-/'cook'-book that keeps track of the spells or recipes a
> character knows. A keyring could be used to pile all keys.
> 
> I suggest that the backpack starts with a limited number of slots. Like
> 8 or 10. Whenever another character joins the party, the same number is
> added. The player can further find some (rare) bags, that add another 4
> or 5 slots each.
> 
> > Specific Situations/ Game Implementation: There are a lot of items
> > that can only be used in certain situations. One example are keys.
> > Instead of giving the player the option to use them, whenever the
> > certain situation occurs (in this case the character tries to open a
> > locked door), the game checks whether the required icon is in the
> > backpack
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> > The same works for reagents. They
> > are not an item category on their own. Instead when your character
> > uses an anvil a dialogue window opens (so internally an anvil is just
> > a verrrrrry dull person), and checks whether you have ore in your
> > backpack or not. Depending on this check the dialogue window could
> > either read:'I do not what I could be doing here'. Or a choice of 'I
> > use my ore to forge a magic hammer' and 'I use my ore to improve my
> > armour'. Of course the same applies for enchanting items.
> 
> Well, the anvil would probably be needed for Dwarves to use their
> skills. So it could be implemented that way. But I don't think it would
> apply for alchemists. They should be able to brew stuff directly from
> the recipe. Of course, that would only work if the required items are in
> the backpack, so it's kinda similar.
> 
> > Rune of Sharpness:
> > useable/ Requires: weapon improvement 2 ranks/Desc.: your weapon
> > carries the rune of sharpness. It can be activated once, then it
> > diminishes. When activated the your melee damage increases by an extra
> > 8 points./ Value: 0 gold
> 
> That's a good idea. I was wondering a bit how weapon improvements would
> work. I guess some would be permanent, but the majority wear off after
> using.
> 
> > Recipe for medium poison:
> > backpack/ req.:alcheny 2 ranks, 2 bitter leafs (activates when you
> > talk to an anvil) / Desc. Use the knownledge written down in this
> > recipe to create poison. Uses 5 power when brewed, consumes the 2
> > bitter leafs. Creates a potion of medium poison. / Value: 45 gold
> 
> As said above, I would make a recipe an entry in the alchemist's
> 'cookbook', so they can be used anytime. Of course that also means they
> cannot be sold.
> 
> That's pretty good so far. With that we should be able to continue the
> item implementation.
> 
> For example, each item script could have a 'is_usable' method that tests
> whether the character fulfills the requirements. That method would then
> be called before equipping or using an item.
> 
> Trying to implement above items would also be a good idea. The recipe's
> 'use' method would for example search the inventory (backpack) for the
> needed reagents. If all are there it would remove them and place the
> resulting item into the backpack.
> 
> There might be some details missing to create above items, but I don't
> think they will be too difficult to add.
> 

Yeah, I agree with all of that :)
I'd like to talk about the controls. I suggested something a bit like
what you're describing a while ago(it should be in the archives and if
you can't find it talk to Ben since we came up with a lot of the ideas
last summer). Basically there were 2-3 item/attack buttons which each
have a graphical button icon on the screen (top-right corner would be
best IMO) these buttons are assigned to any joypad/kbd/mouse button that
you like in the options menu. Then in the inventory you can assign an
item or attack or spell or combo to each button. The icon of the
item/attack/weapon/whatever then appears on the button icon so you know
which button does what at a glance. The idea is loosly based on Zelda:
Ocarina of Time - if you've played that you'll know what I mean.
If you have a party each character has his/her own buttons so they can
be assigned different items/spells/etc.  Perhaps some items (like a
healing potion) can be assigned to different characters (so if you
switch char you have imediate access) in this case the item gets shared
so if one char takes a sip that's one sip less for everyone else too.


Now, apart from the 2-3 item buttons there are two more buttons:

-A general purpose do-stuff/ok/push/pull/jump(?) button which is context
sensitive - ie: it will do whatever makes sense depending where you are
standing (normally it will just jump, next to a NPC it will start a
conversation, next to a button it will press it, next to  movable
mapobject holding it down and pressing back will pull/pressing forward
will push, in a menu it acts as the 'OK' button etc.)
I'm not sure if jumping should have it's own button or not but for
everything else it should be fine.

-The other button would be menu/back (like Y in Secret of Mana)
While in the game it brings up the menu screen (for
inventories/stats/options/saving/loading etc)
While in a menu it acts as the 'Cancel' or 'Back' button.
Basically everything in the menus should be accessible via the arrow
keys/buttons the 'OK/do stuff' button and the 'Menu/Back' button.


Now, in light of your item proposal I'd like to add a few things to that
- your idea of things like keys not being explicitly equippable but just
acting automatically when needed is great. I think this should be
incorporated with the 'ok/do stuff' button because that's what a player
would instinctively press to interact with something/someone on the map.
Take a locked tresure chest normally walking up to it and pressing the
button will just make your character say 'this appers to be locked' but
once you have the key in your backpack he just opens it.


Also regarding the item icons in the corner of the screen - when ever
they get used/activated they should light up. If it is an item that gets
used once as you press the button it should just light up with the
button-press. If it is an item that gets activated and they stays on
until deactivated (like a torch), it should light up when the button is
pressed to turn it on and then stay highlighted (or maybe pulse
light/dark) while active until the button is pressed again to deactivate
it. Finally items (or spells/ attacks) that can be charged up by holding
the button down and then be used when the button is released should
light up/blink in the same way but perhaps have a little progress bar
that pops up below the item to indicate how charged up it is. I can't
imagine we'd need any other way of using an item/attack/spell/whatever

As far as I can tell there will only be 4 ways items/spells/etc. can be
used up:
-you can use them as often as you want (a sword for example). In this
case the icon stays on its own.

-it can only be used once, then it disappears. Perhaps we could have a
little subicon or something below to indicate this (a 1 in a circle
perhaps) or we use the technique below and just have 1/1

-you can only use it a fixed amount of times (or you have multiple
identical items that can each only be used once). In this case I think
"<number of uses left>/<maximum uses>" should appear below the icon
(kinda like a subscript).

-it gradually wears off as you use it (eg: a lamp). In this case we have
a little progress bar below to show how much is left


In the last two cases I also think the icon should flash when it's
almost empty / used up to alert the player.



Two more additions that just came to me:

It would be a useful feature to be able to select one
item/spell/weapon/combo buttons (can we give them a name please? ..the
thingy buttons) to automatically adopt the last item that was picked up
(by the character whose thingy button it is) its previous item then just
goes back into the rucksack.

It would also be cool to be able to set up a queue of items that get
used up on a thingy button, so when the first item is used up the button
doesn't go empty - the next item automatically goes onto the button.
In fact creating combos of attacks/spells could be done in the same way!


OK, enough ideas for today, back to revision :(

        -James
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