Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Re : diydrones.com: PAPARAZZI UAV ON PIXHAWK TEASER

[David Conger]

Ok, that helps me understand it. It seemed very personal.

I saw that OP on DIY and had no strong feelings at all about the OP
message. I really am surprised anyone has such strong feelings about
it. I didn't.

No one should every had strong feelings about anything I write. Ever.
I will promise to work on that.

I must admit I'm torn now about Paparazzi. I feel there is now a
Paparazzi looking for financial success measured in units sold,
paychecks, business success and a Paparazzi I knew that seemed
indifferent to these measures and just existed to exist. I seem to
align more with the one that just wants to exist.

David


On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Felix Ruess <address@hidden> wrote:
> I guess my post is mostly a general statement as opposed to a direct reply
> to your message...
>
> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 12:14 AM, David Conger <address@hidden>
> wrote:
>>
>> Let me be direct.
>> There is the Left, the Right and the middle. I seek always the middle.
>> Am I a human who falls short absolutely. Hence I am trying to be very
>> direct.
>> -David
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 3:11 PM, David Conger <address@hidden>
>> wrote:
>> > Felix,
>> > There must be a translation error here. Maybe something to learn like
>> > we did from the DIY post.
>> > David
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Felix Ruess <address@hidden>
>> > wrote:
>> >> David,
>> >>
>> >> I don't believe that...
>> >>
>> >> There are lots of great people and projects out there (and yes that
>> >> includes
>> >> the DIY drones crowd!).
>> >> And most of them don't have financial goals in mind, but rather are
>> >> Open
>> >> Source Enthusiasts as well!
>> >> They make cool stuff and share it with the world, just like us... isn't
>> >> that
>> >> enough?
>> >>
>> >> And just because there was some bad blood in a few DIY drones
>> >> discussions in
>> >> the past, that doesn't mean that goes for everyone there or that is has
>> >> to
>> >> continue in that vein.
>> >> Why should the interaction with other people sharing the same passions
>> >> (Drones) that just happen to use other hardware/software be be avoided?
>> >> If the discussions are conducted on an open minded and friendly level
>> >> everyone benefits!
>> >>
>> >> I can't blame anyone for being upset or irritated by the post, since I
>> >> am
>> >> too!
>> >>
>> >> Let's please just try not to go down the road of insinuations,
>> >> boisterous
>> >> claims and weird comparisons. Stay on the level of actual facts.
>> >>
>> >> There is already enough subtext/context lost in textual communication,
>> >> so
>> >> everyone should take extra care with the tone of messages.
>> >> Also the other way round: it's easy to read something into a message
>> >> that
>> >> wasn't intended by the poster, so if in doubt err on the positive/nice
>> >> side.
>> >>
>> >> Flame wars, more or less hidden accusations and angry messages don't
>> >> benefit
>> >> anyone and are just totally counter-productive and tiresome. We should
>> >> all
>> >> hold ourselves to higher standards than that. And often we just have to
>> >> agree that we disagree on things... and that's fine.
>> >>
>> >> I feel the Paparazzi UAV community is a generally a very friendly,
>> >> helpful
>> >> and open minded bunch and we should conduct ourselves in that way
>> >> regardless
>> >> with whom we interact.
>> >>
>> >> Just my 2 cents...
>> >>
>> >> Cheers, Felix
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 10:46 PM, David Conger <address@hidden>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Interesting, I just read the DIY posts.
>> >>> My first reaction though is not a surprise. Ardupilot people are
>> >>> easily upset and predominately Americans who are easily upset. As an
>> >>> American who has traveled extensively I see it very clearly now.
>> >>>
>> >>> Having met the TUDelft people personally I know they would have no
>> >>> intention of posting anything in a way to upset anyone. I'm taken back
>> >>> really the depths the mob came out to burn the orig. poster at the
>> >>> stake for the well intended but badly translated message.
>> >>>
>> >>> I have been burned many times at the stake by the same mob over the
>> >>> years since 2007. The posts that were not deleted off DIYDrones site
>> >>> remain on RCGroups.com site. Anything critical, even implied via the
>> >>> reader not writer, is attacked with venom. Just their way. I don't
>> >>> judge them as bad I only know you must handle them with extreme care.
>> >>>
>> >>> I will say, even offer, that English is my first language and I have
>> >>> been at this since 2007 watching and interacting with all the major
>> >>> players online. I know this group well from personal experiences. On
>> >>> RCGroups from the very top of 3DR and DIY they monitor the threads and
>> >>> redirect all new posters over to DIY websites where the content is
>> >>> strictly controlled to be pro Ardupilot and 3DR.
>> >>>
>> >>> If the mob had turned against DIY or 3DR the thread would be quickly
>> >>> closed, content removed/edited. There's a long history of that there.
>> >>> It is why I really hesitate to go there or post there. RCGroups is a
>> >>> much friendlier place to have non-3DR non-Ardupilot related discussion
>> >>> but just expect the usual redirection posts saying to go to DIYDrones
>> >>> site by those monitoring and wanting more business driven over to
>> >>> there. It gets hostile there also but it's a lot better than DIY.
>> >>>
>> >>> The bigger question to be asked I think is why do we continue to want
>> >>> the blessing of DIY? By every measure I think matters Paparazzi
>> >>> Project is a huge global success. So why would something so obviously
>> >>> successful on every measure other than financial to go there to
>> >>> interact with them? I encourage everyone in the developer's list to
>> >>> realize this success requires no affirmation from that mob. The only
>> >>> place financial success is glorified is in America and nothing
>> >>> reinforces that like what you see happen in that post. There is a
>> >>> saying, belief in America that the only truly sacred thing is someones
>> >>> financial position. Never attack someones paycheck or ability to grow
>> >>> theirs. When an American feels that threatened look out.
>> >>>
>> >>> Why do I write this?  Well, same reason I am still here. Why I still
>> >>> would hand solder Paparazzi hardware in quantities of 1,2,3 or so for
>> >>> zero profit. Because I do not need affirmation from anyone it's the
>> >>> right thing to do or that I'm a success measured in dollars. I feel
>> >>> very successful to still offer myself and Paparazzi hardware to anyone
>> >>> even if they only want a single one. PPZUAV (my company) is
>> >>> self-funded and always will be. Sure, once a long time ago there was
>> >>> that window of opportunity before DIY corporation was born but I have
>> >>> no regrets keeping PPZUAV completely under my control and financially
>> >>> independent. I have zero debt. I always have, personally and the
>> >>> company.
>> >>>
>> >>> I want never at any time to make choices aimed only at financial gain
>> >>> or ego. I see the mess it causes and how financial success is an empty
>> >>> path unless it is found by accident or as a secondary unintended
>> >>> consequence of just being very good at what you do. Meaning to be
>> >>> financially successful simply by doing what is correct and right
>> >>> morally and for the planet is a very good thing and I endorse it
>> >>> completely. However, to have a company created only to make a profit
>> >>> is a difficult path with much peril for those who walk it. I make no
>> >>> condemnation of anyone doing it.
>> >>>
>> >>> In my eyes the core that started Paparazzi is still alive as a
>> >>> separate thing that has no consideration for monetary gain. Everyone
>> >>> who does Paparazzi should have another source of income to keep this
>> >>> separation. Paparazzi by just existing still after all these years is
>> >>> the truest form of affirmation. I really encourage all involved to
>> >>> think hard about real success and focus on encouraging each other and
>> >>> helping each other because no one from 3DR or DIY will ever seem to
>> >>> change. I just had a friend tell me they read in WIred Magazine that a
>> >>> person we all know claims they invented the drone revolution...no not
>> >>> Al Gore but you're getting warm. ;)
>> >>>
>> >>> The best way to grow Paparazzi is to continue doing what you do and
>> >>> know that success matters in what you do not what you say or how much
>> >>> profit you make doing it. This is to me a wonderful chance to stop and
>> >>> look at each other, smile and be happy we have each other and look to
>> >>> so many more years of success in research, sciences, and thing that
>> >>> matter for the planet that needs us more than ever right now. Do not
>> >>> seek anything from DIY crowd as it's an empty path to join or be a
>> >>> part of something that measures success purely as units sold and
>> >>> dollars made.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 9:28 AM, address@hidden
>> >>> <address@hidden> wrote:
>> >>> > Strange post. Seems to come from Delft, did someone get into contact
>> >>> > with
>> >>> > them? If we make a global reply, you can add my name to the signing
>> >>> > if
>> >>> > needed. Unfortunately I don't have much internet access time.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Gautier
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Envoyé depuis mon mobile Orange
>> >>> >
>> >>> > ----- Reply message -----
>> >>> > De : "Alexandre Bustico" <address@hidden>
>> >>> > Pour : "Paparazzi UAV devel list" <address@hidden>
>> >>> > Objet : [Paparazzi-devel] diydrones.com: PAPARAZZI UAV ON PIXHAWK
>> >>> > TEASER
>> >>> > Date : mer., mars 2, 2016 15:43
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Le 02/03/2016 15:38, Felix Ruess a écrit :
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Definitely not endorsed by myself...
>> >>> > It really shouldn't say "The Paparazzi dev team" as it doesn't
>> >>> > reflect
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > view of every dev member/contributor, certainly not mine!
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Martin Mueller <address@hidden>
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Nice to see support for Pixhawk
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/paparazziuav-org-on-pixhawk-teaser
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> But why advertise it so aggressively, almost dumb? Who wrote that,
>> >>> >> why
>> >>> >> does it
>> >>> >> say "The Paparazzi dev team"?
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> _
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Probably written after to many hours or days without sleeping,
>> >>> > giving
>> >>> > some
>> >>> > excuse to the one who post.
>> >>> > Anyway, we probably, as a team, apologize for this aggressive post
>> >>> > which
>> >>> > deserve us...
>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
>> >>> > Alexandre
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Paparazzi-devel mailing list
>> >>> > address@hidden
>> >>> > https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> address@hidden
>> >>> http://www.ppzuav.com
>> >>>
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>> >>> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > address@hidden
>> > http://www.ppzuav.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> address@hidden
>> http://www.ppzuav.com
>>
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