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Re: Musings on our translated documentation build


From: Federico Bruni
Subject: Re: Musings on our translated documentation build
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2023 23:54:33 +0100



Il giorno mer 4 gen 2023 alle 23:36:39 +0100, Jonas Hahnfeld <hahnjo@hahnjo.de> ha scritto:
On Wed, 2023-01-04 at 22:58 +0100, Federico Bruni wrote:
 Il giorno mer 4 gen 2023 alle 14:39:47 +0100, Jonas Hahnfeld
 <hahnjo@hahnjo.de> ha scritto:
> The other two formats we care about for the translated documentation > are PDF and HTML. Of the two, HTML is arguably the more complex one in > terms of infrastructure for cross-references: For PDF, we just link to > the (translated) heading in the right PDF file, and that's it. For the > split HTML build, however, we want the @node's to end up in a .html
 > file based on their English equivalent so that automatic language
> works if you open a page without the .html extension (question 0: do we
 > want to keep this ability?).

 It's a good question. Some find it annoying, e.g. if you have a
 localised browser but you want to read the english pages (because
 translation is out-of-date or for other reasons). There is a
workaround: setting english as preferred language, but this affects any
 website you visit.

Yes, that's me basically. I could probably solve my personal use case
by proposing a patch that keeps the .html extension in links inside the English documentation (so whenever you chose English, you stay with the
untranslated version), but I'm pretty sure others want a different
behavior (for example you below, I think). Anyway, I will take this as
"we probably want some automatic switching in one way or another",
which requires identical .html file names to start with.


No, I'm in favour actually.
If I choose english, I want all the links to be .html so I'm sure I remain in the english manual, whatever language my browser has. If I choose italian, I want all the links to be .it.html.


I would prefer if setting a language was an explicit choice of the user.
 So an italian page should link to the italian pages, if available,
 otherwise fall back to english.

This is the current behavior, no? Apart from the fact that the language
choice is currently coming from the browser...


No, it's not. The link in the italian pages are without extension, see for example:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.24/Documentation/notation/index.it.html

When I click on any chapter, the english page is served because I set english as preferred language. The automatic language selection has more priority than my decision of browsing the manual in a certain language.
I find this very annoying.

On the other hand, a "language independent link" can be useful and I'm not saying we should remove it. Let's keep the rules in the .htaccess file. But I think the links of each manual should have their own file extensions: .html for english, LL.html for the other languages. IIRC this is how the locally built web documentation worked some years ago (and maybe it still behaves the same).




 What is the "annoyance" exactly?

1. All @ref{Translated} become @ref{Origin}, but as far as I understand
that may actually be an advantage.
2. All @ruser{Translated} become @rusernamed{Origin,Translated}, ie you
have to provide both the original @node *and* the translated display
text. For @unnumberedsec, we may even need a third argument to get the
anchor correct - not sure how often that is actually needed.


Yes, 2. is an annoyance, but I can live with that.







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