Re: which language you would use for X11-less macOS graphic framework?

[suzuki toshiya]

Thank you very much for good introduction of PyObjC. Your comment "(Swift) is quite 
large" is about Swift on Linux? or both of macOS and Linux?

In my understanding, the basic idea of Ahmet's GSoC 2024 is a rewriting of 
freetype-demos/graph/mac to catch up with the latest macOS, not an introduction 
of new nice FreeType demo programs written in scripting language.

freetype-demos/graph is a source tree for an object file with portable frontend 
(to be called by C) and platform-dependent backend, like X11, Win32, OS2 and 
BeOS. It's hard for me to think about a C object file which can call PyObjC 
internally, although it might be possible.

If somebody wants to have a Python-based toolkit to develop new nice FreeType 
demo programs, it's good, but for such requirements, using softwares with 
platform dependencies like PyObjC, is not the best. PyGTK+ or PyQt might be 
better, I think. Am I missing some points?

Regards,
mpsuzuki

On 2024/05/02 18:38, Hin-Tak Leung wrote:
> I think Swift runs on Linux also these days, but perhaps without any GUI 
> bindings. I considered installing it at some point but it is quite large (even 
> without GUI) binding. Size we are talking about similar to Rust and Java.
>
> Open GL on Mac OS X is on the way out and quite buggy/behind mesa on Linux. 
> You'll find accelerated graphics works on Linux but not on Mac OS X. (There are 
> two existing bugs on skia-python specific to Mac OS X).
>
> Metal is what Apple offers instead of Open GL. There is a feature request (I 
> filed it to remind myself...) to switch on Metal support on Mac OS X for 
> skia-python since Open GL is lacking.
>
> Before you dive into Swift, considering watching some of Just van Rossum 's 
> videos on YouTube for inspirations. Just is a font designer who also happens to 
> be brother of Guido (inventor of Python). Just uses Mac OS as most graphics 
> designer people do, and you would be amazed what you can do with Python 
> GUI-wise on Mac OS, if your brother happens to be the most knowledgeable person 
> about Python in the world :-) ... and check out Just's various software on 
> github too after you check out the videos.
>
> I think Just uses pyobjc (python binding to objective c), which is bunded on 
> mac os x's shipped Python. But, have a look at what Just uses lately; he may 
> have some swift stuff too. Anyway, he is Mac OS-based, and his software works 
> are open-source and mostly about fonts, so you just find plenty to take 
> inspiration on. (I don't think he subscribes to freetype-devel, but I could be 
> wrong...)
>
>
> On Thursday, 2 May 2024 at 09:59:52 BST, Ahmet Göksu <ahmet@goksu.in> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you for your guidance.
>
> I agree with your assessment and prefer to use Swift. It seems well-suited for 
> future-proofing our project.
>
> Best,
> Goksu
> goksu.in
> On May 2, 2024 at 11:17 +0300, suzuki toshiya <mpsuzuki@hiroshima-u.ac.jp>, 
> wrote:
> Dear Ahmet,
>
> The development of native GUI application for macOS have 3 choices:
> 1) Use C and Carbon framework (now obsoleted)
> 2) Objective-C and Cocoa framework
> 3) Swift
>
> I think 2) or 3) are (still) reasonable options, but 1) is not anymore.
> I'm unfamiliar with a market trend for Apple products, but sometimes
> I hear a few people (working for iOS softwares) promoting Swift as
> Swift is in, and Objective-C is out.
>
> Also, there would be alternative approach, like Qt, to keep from playing
> with Apple-specific technologies.
>
> Do you have any preference?
>
> Regards,
> mpsuzuki
>
> On 2024/05/02 14:30, Ahmet Göksu wrote:
> Hi Suzuki,
>
> Thank you, I am so excited to work with you!
>
> The new goal is Native Graphics Backend for FreeType Demos on macOS.
> I have updated on the GSoC website but the proposal file is unable to change.
>
> Here you can find my proposal in the attachments.
>
> Best,
> Goksu
> goksu.in
> On May 2, 2024 at 03:56 +0300, suzuki toshiya <mpsuzuki@hiroshima-u.ac.jp>, 
> wrote:
> Dear Ahmet,
>
> Congratulation! I'm glad to find another macOS contributor in
> FreeType.
>
> Please could you provide the updated estimation of the schedule,
> with new goal (native graphics backend for macOS, without X11)?
> The filed schedule dated on April 2nd was written for older goal
> (an improvement of ftbench and related).
>
> Regards,
> mpsuzuki
>
> On 2024/05/02 4:31, Ahmet Göksu wrote:
> Hello!
> Its Ahmet Goksu, last years GSoC contributor on ftbench.
> This year, I will be contributing development graphics backend natively on 
> macOS without X11.
>
> Its so exciting to be here again!
>
> here are my infos to connect:
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahmetgoksu/
> https://github.com/goeksu
> https://resume.goksu.in
>
> Best,
> Goksu
> goksu.in