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Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEA
From: |
Ihor Radchenko |
Subject: |
Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) |
Date: |
Mon, 06 Feb 2023 14:10:58 +0000 |
Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:
> * Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> [2023-02-05 13:45]:
>> [2024-02-04 12:00 @-08,America/Vancouver] will use fixed -8 offset
>
> What does that mean practically? Provide example for better
> understanding.
It means "when I scheduled this item, I expected the UTC offset at the
time of the timestamp to be -08 and remain so. It was motivated by
America/Vancouver time zone, but if it changes in future, I do not care
- the scheduled time should remain at specific time point relative to
UTC".
> - The UTC offset is not certain to remain fixed in the future.
Yes. But fixing UTC offset means that time point is fixed. Example: you
need a timestamp exactly N hours from now. It must not be affected by
time zone rule changes.
> - If you do not have the time of creation of the timestamp above, you
> cannot know with certainty what was the offset in past, to calculate
> new UTC offset in case it changed
America/Vancouver in the above timestamp is nothing but a reference
comment. One may or may not use it.
> - As not even time zone is certain to remain in existence in future,
> you will need to use time zone, in order to derive that future UTC
> offset correctly. As it could change in mean time.
If timestamp must follow the future time zone rules, can just use
[2024-02-04 12:00 @America/Vancouver]
>> [2024-02-04 12:00 @America/Vancouver] will use @America/Vancouver time
>> zone, as it is be defined in you OS time zone database.
>
> If you do not keep UTC offset, you will miss changes in future and
> generate errors.
Only if you care. Maybe it is not an error to follow the future changes.
If you want to be notified, just use [2024-02-04 12:00
@-08,!America/Vancouver] explicitly stating the offset you expect in
future.
>> [2024-02-04 12:00 @-08,!America/Vancouver] (note "!") will use fixed -8
>> offset, but also calculate America/Vancouver time from TZ database,
>> compare it with the time coming from -8 offset, and warn you if there is
>> inconsistency.
>
> The UTC offset is the log what was the UTC offset at the time point
> when timestamp was created, as future UTC offset cannot be known.
Sure. -08 is expected offset.
> Making it "fixed" does not fix it in real time, you are then
> introducing something new than what other programs do with time.
I do not understand this statement.
> I do not think that you need "!", you are creating work not necessary
> for users.
I hope that I clarified the need in the above examples. You may also
refer to the reference in the original proposal. The idea with "!" is
explained in more details.
> If users wish to get some warnings, let them customize single option.
This will be less fine-grained approach. For some timestamps, you don't
need warnings. Of course, default customization may be also provided to
enable warnings for timestamps without "!".
--
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), (continued)
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Ypo, 2023/02/04
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Max Nikulin, 2023/02/04
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Jean Louis, 2023/02/05
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Ihor Radchenko, 2023/02/05
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda),
Ihor Radchenko <=
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Jean Louis, 2023/02/07
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Ihor Radchenko, 2023/02/08
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Jean Louis, 2023/02/09
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Ihor Radchenko, 2023/02/10
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Jean Louis, 2023/02/12
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), tomas, 2023/02/12
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Jean Louis, 2023/02/14
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Heinz Tuechler, 2023/02/14
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), tomas, 2023/02/14
- Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda), Max Nikulin, 2023/02/14