Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey

[Thibaut Verron]

Le sam. 17 oct. 2020 à 06:21, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> a écrit :
>
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
>   > > We could turn this argument around and ask why the developers who
>   > > maintain MELPA don't remove `2-3' packages that promote non-free
>   > > software.
>
>   > I sincerely hope it doesn't happen. Those packages might rely on
>   > non-free software, but they are still packages that some users find
>   > valuable or even vital, and that they would want to find somewhere
>   > else if not available on Melpa. Removing them from Melpa would only
>   > move the "problem".
>
> I think you have picked up your values (your basis of judging what is
> good or bad) from what most people think, and that you took for granted
> we have the same values.  But we don't.

> The goal of the GNU Project is not simply "to help users."  It is to
> help users _escape from nonfree software_ (des logiciels pas libres), and
> ultimately to build a world where all software is free.

I gave my reasons above. It's not just about "helping users", it's
about helping them move more of their activities to the free world.
Those packages (helm-lastpass, lastpass) are helping users who already
use lastpass at the moment do exactly that.

> Nonfree
> software is an injustice -- nonfree software subjugates users.
> Our goal is to _eradicate it_.

Again, the same question: by arranging for links to such software to
be removed everywhere? Or by offering free alternatives?

Incidentally, I see a lot of effort so far discussing how evil
helm-lastpass and lastpass are, and how to get them moved to obscure
parts of the internet. What I don't see is efforts discussing free
alternatives.

As far as I know the only free competitor for lastpass is bitwarden,
why is nobody talking about developing an emacs interface to bitwarden
and educating lastpass users about it? Isn't _that_ what the GNU
project is about, rather than making it as hard as possible to find
the software we don't like?


> You, thinking based on your values, seem to consider that a good
> thing.  You draw the conclusion that it would be unfortunate if Melpa
> deleted the Lisp package which refers to that nonfree program.
>
> We, based on the values we have followed since the 1980s say that it
> is bad that someone is using a nonfree program, that we wish the
> nonfree program did not exist, and that we hope someone will liberate
> its users soon by developing a free replacement for it.  We would
> be very glad if Melpa deleted that Lisp package.

Me too I guess, once and not before the free replacement exists. As
long as it doesn't, it means that the aforementioned users will be
trapped in the non-free ecosystem because they can't use their
password manager in Emacs (or IceCat). How is that helping the cause
of free software?

> We tend to expect that people joining in GNU Project discussion lists
> are familiar with the basic ideas and values of the GNU Project.  But
> this is not always the case.  It would be good if we could recognize
> this sooner and educate people about the basic ideas of the GNU
> Project sooner.

I am familiar with the ideas and values of the GNU Project, and to a
large extent I agree with them. My points of disagreement lie in
implementation details and priorities.

Framing those disagreements as a lack of education is demeaning.