Albert,
On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 2:44 AM Albert Palacios <optimisme@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
With the GitHub code, where the GSTheme.m file is 8 years old, I can't see how to create a theme to my liking. Now I see that there have been modifications three months ago to some files, I will have to look at the differences to see in detail what it is about.
Yes, the relevant changes are in GSThemeDrawing.m and GSThemeMenu.m. Those are categories on GSTheme.
The 'Argentum' theme from the 'AgoraDesktop' repository on Github seems like an empty skeleton, but you have already said that the previous images were made with a vector editing program, and not real functioning code. Nevertheless, I have not been able to get this project to work, because although there is an installer, there is no explanation anywhere on how to start the desktop and my knowledge of FreeBSD is NIL.
There is no "Desktop." There are only apps and the API.
Also, in the documentation, I can't see anywhere how to properly make a custom vector theme from scratch, and I haven't found any example either. I really mean it when I say that if I achieve my goal of making a GNUStep program that doesn't make my eyes bleed, I will make more modern documentation for my students.
This is, again, our fault. Documentation is wanting. We need more examples. While Agora might not be implemented at the moment, other themes that you have been shown have been. The issue is we don't have a desktop to show you. Also, making your "eyes bleed" is very subjective. I'm sure some things make my eyes bleed that you might love.
But right now, I can't use your library in the classroom because they will think I am crazy. I know the 90s were phenomenal, but my students were born after 2000, I can't introduce Objective C in the classroom with an aesthetic that is prehistoric to them.
We are not in love with the 90s. The "default" look of GNUstep is in place for practical reasons. It is what was originally implemented before the relevant drawing code was moved to GSTheme and its categories.
I would have been very concerned if a professor of mine hadn't introduced me to something because he thought I would not like its aesthetic. I find that rather concerning.
Thank you very much for your patience, but when you say that it is very easy to criticize and more difficult to contribute, take note yourselves too. Because it's very easy to say that the approach of overriding the code is completely wrong, and not to provide any clear and real example of a vector theme that can be used as a base, and where it is clearly seen how to modify the menus or complex components.
Given that there are examples (both of code and of image-based themes) in the GitHub GNUstep repo, it is certainly easy to say your approach is wrong because it IS. Our documentation is, indeed, lacking, but there are a few examples out there that you don't have to search for. It's right there on GitHub. The Windows theme, in fact, completely REPLACES the menus and uses Windows menus.
Ultimately you are correct in that, while there are examples in the repo... it is not well documented and we need to have more tutorials. This is hard given that we have a very small team.
I have been following this list for a long time,
And, like Bruce, you have been watching and SAYING NOTHING and NOT WRITING BUGS and CONTRIBUTING NOTHING. If you want your opinions to be taken seriously, it is more productive to submit bugs, or contribute code. Help us make GNUstep better. Criticizing is EXTREMELY EASY... ACTUALLY contributing something concrete is HARD.
and what is evident is that there would be more interest in GNUStep if, let's see how I put it, ..., it was more clearly explained how to customize it to everyone's taste.
I thought that's what we have been doing with GSTheme as well as trying to make GNUstep portable to as many platforms as possible.
Including those of us who have appreciated the updates to macOS since Cheetah, and have never owned a NeXTcube.
Indeed.
Albert
Yours, GC
> On 19 Dec 2023, at 22:26, Kyle Cardoza <kyle.cardoza@icloud.com> wrote:
>
> “Mr. Cardoza” makes me look for the warrant in your hand, but yes, I have been working on refactoring default drawing behaviour into the base GSTheme class, to enable better control over theme elements in subclasses. There’s definitely improvements to be made in the theme that would be presented to new users in a hypothetical reference distro (which is not necessarily the same as the base GSTheme class!), but I can’t say I think the base theme is ugly. Just old fashioned. That isn’t inherently a bad thing, but I see how some might get the wrong impression about what GNUstep is and can do based on the NeXTSTEP look and feel.
>
> The theme I am designing is based entirely on vector drawing, to take full advantage of modern high dpi displays, and show off what a fully native GNUstep environment is actually capable of being. That’s a lot of work, but it’s work that is being done.
>
>> Additionally, Mr. Cardoza, who wrote earlier in this list. Thought as you do about the theming stuff and I helped him with understanding what could be done by pointing him to the code. He contributed code to handle the menu padding (PRECISELY THE ISSUE YOU POINTED OUT) to GSTheme about two months ago.
Gregory Casamento
GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
GNUstep Lead Developer / OLC, Principal Consultant
http://www.gnustep.org - http://heronsperch.blogspot.com
https://www.patreon.com/bePatron?u=352392 - Become a Patron
https://www.openhub.net/languages/objective_c - OpenHub standings
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