Re: I wrote about the new GSDE package on the Register

[Riccardo Mottola]

Hi,

On 2023-07-21 11:55:10 +0000 Xavier <xavier@alternatif.org> wrote:

> Greg,
> So let's move on and do something about this. IMHO GnuStep need an 
> updated 
> website at first, because current one looks old for young devs (even 
> if we 
> like it), it certainly doesn't help to think that GnuStep is MacOs 
> Api -- I 
> volunteer to work on this.

"It doesn't help"... well, I disagree, since it is. Of course, it is 
many things, so the old website was actually even more effective 
conveying this than the current one.

Also, beware, since we have a non-working wiki, a lot of things are 
messed up. I am thinking if duplication is he lesser evil than 
procratination.

I don't think them ost important thing is to cater young devs. A 
website should be neutral. TO be honest, we are not young and really 
"young" develoeprs look at completely different things for the quick 
gain thn the web and javascript FW things. THose who look beyond are 
alo capable of being interested in us.

> There is tons of new projects published on Hacker News, all trying to 
> attract 
> users and developers. Just observe their websites :
>
> - Nowadays all are shiny, "modern", moving, etc. Even if we don't 
> like these 
> designs it is what young devs expects. - Note that they don't need 

Patrly true. THere are succesful projects whithout even a website, 
just a github presence! Or others who have captivating marketable 
pages which don't go anywhere.

> screenshots, only an attractive presentation. - Similarily, 
> documentations 

Being a GUI and UX related projects (even if a big deal is actually 
our base library) screenshots help. Here too, there is no common 
success story. Check around, some projects just have a couple of 
images, other like to impress with lots of design details. I think we 
go in the middle. Before all our infrastructure waned into nil, I was 
about to use enhance the wiki pfr contributed images, which I 
presonally think are alwas neat. Correctly presented, who is not 
interested just skims over them

> are often Sphinx based (or another tool). - All projects trying to 
> attract 
> young devs are managed from "modern" and new platforms -- GitHub of 
> course, 

There is the doc-tool-to-jour, like there is the build-toolto-hour. 
gsdoc and make will outlive them all :)

> but also Gitlab and a few more that make it easier to contribute. 
> Self 
> hosting with a Github clone could be an option. It make sense because 
> the 
> environment looks familiar, while Savannah is kind of obsolete. 
> Gitlab 
> hosting is perhaps the best option.

We are (sadly) on github since ears. Savannah is really just legacy 
only and in the current update of the webpages (gnustep-www) this is 
very clear.
Gitlab is really not better than github, so given the disadvantages 
are being shared, github at least gives you exposre and a known 
infrastructure.

> Finally, I worked as a professional cooker ("le chef") for years. 
> There is 
> something that all experienced cookers knows :  taste is mind 
> constructed 
> with various sensations and visual is the most important thing.

This is becoming a little off-topic as comparison, but your position 
is not shared by everybody. Visual is not the most important thing, at 
least not for everybody.
Although an "ugly dish" is a no-go, it is not everything. The 
sensations come together from all senses, from memory, frome 
xpectations but at the end smell, taste and consitency are the real 
dish. Some people give high value to the perfect visual (dish, food 
look, menu loko, restaurant look, etc etc) otehrs are more 
down-to-earth. There is one-catch-all rule.If you have ever enjoyed 
"Ratatoiulle" film, then you know.

Cheers,
Riccardo

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