Re: JavaScript is only a tool

[Narcis Garcia]

El 24/7/21 a les 14:02, Lorenzo L. Ancora ha escrit:
>> You must differenciate scripts to be run server-side or client-side.
>> You can't have interactivity without server-side code (such as PHP or
>> Python), and YOU CAN have interactivity without client-side code (such
>> as JavaScript or VBScript): Just HTML forms and links. 
> 
> I already did but I believe you are a bit confused: reactivity and
> interactivity refer only to web pages that have been already downloaded
> by the web browser (and they refer exclusively to web browsers, not to
> other kind of clients). Reactivity and interactivity have nothing to do
> with server-side processing, which is physically incapable of offering
> any of those because HTTP/S is a stateless client-server protocol.
> 
> What you were perhaps referring to is dynamism, which is another
> entirely different concept. Dynamism is the ability of a server to send
> different web pages based on different voluntary/involuntary user input
> and has nothing to do with DOM changes once the transfer is complete.
> Static websites always upload the same webpage; dynamic websites produce
> the webpage via scripts or other means during each client request and
> then upload their output.

Call it dynamism if you want. Then dynamism it's (or should be) enough
useful on most scenarios.

> Thus, the functionality offered by JavaScript can by no means be
> replaced by server-side processing, but server-side processing can be
> used to produce dynamic JavaScript to reduce the complexity of existing
> client-side code (this is an advanced technique, often used with
> server-side scripting frameworks).

This argument seems same as "functionality offered by Adobe Flash can by
no means be replaced by JavaScript" or "functionality of ELF or EXE can
by no means be replaced by Flash, ActiveX or Java applets"
What is "enough" and what is "desirable" ?

>> Really few scenarios I've seen with client-side code really required;
>> for example a WYSIWYG editor. Not much more.
> 
> Maybe you haven't read part of the thread (note the title change).
> The need to use JavaScript grows with the size of the website and the
> number of users. In the majority of websites (banks, e-commerce, trading
> portals, web chats, videoconferencing, video streaming, live streaming,
> and so on), JavaScript is not optional but - unless the website is very
> small and amateurish - not using it is always disadvantageous and
> uneconomical.

The need to use JavaScript grows with developer's dependence of it to
make a website nice or productive at his/her like.

> Perhaps one could be in the condition of totally disabling JavaScript if
> underage or in a very reclusive community, otherwise there will be
> always a moment in which you will be forced to use it (and very often,
> as it should be, its execution is transparent).

Oh, I have not enough time to open a new thread about JavaScript
transparency and bad practices over average users.

> Il 21/07/21 06:52, Narcis Garcia ha scritto:
>> El 20/7/21 a les 21:34, Lorenzo L. Ancora via ha escrit:
>>> A script is interpreted and subject to indirect execution. The sandbox
>>> is just an addition to this process, which improves its already high
>>> security.
>>>
>>> After all, you can't have interactivity without running some code,
>>> either explicitly or explicitly. The ability to execute code is a
>>> prerequisite for making web pages interactive. Maybe in 10 years they
>>> will invent the web 9.0 and it will all be different, but for now the
>>> reality is that you have to run hundreds of small scripts just to shop
>>> online or access your bank.
>>
>> You must differenciate scripts to be run server-side or client-side.
>> You can't have interactivity without server-side code (such as PHP or
>> Python), and YOU CAN have interactivity without client-side code (such
>> as JavaScript or VBScript): Just HTML forms and links.
>>
>> Really few scenarios I've seen with client-side code really required;
>> for example a WYSIWYG editor. Not much more.
>>

An HTML6 version is desirable to extend tags and properties that make
JavaScript less and less necessary to validate forms, change UI
behaviour (such as editor) or react to events.
In the meanwhile, JavaScript is the main trap for human beings.

-- 
Narcis Garcia