Re: Matrix and XMPP (was: hackint IRC channel for FSD)

[David Hedlund]

On 2021-06-30 16:27, Adonay Felipe Nogueira via wrote:

> Em 30-06-2021 10:01, David Hedlund escreveu:
> > Can you start a new thread on this discussion and suggest Matrix in
> > addition to XMPP?
> >       
> I wouldn't be in favor of Matrix, various clients have accessibility
> issues, specially for people like me that have subnormal monocular sight
> (since many clients often impose font sizes, element colors or spacing
> in a way that conflicts with system-wide preferences or with their own
> styles). For example, for Element Web, if one tells the browser to force
> system-wide fonts and sizes or when setting Element Web's font size to
> 20pt, the default style turns into a headache waiting to happen (see
> attached screenshot), so one still has to learn how to program in their
> browsers' native extension language, how to fiddle with CSS, and figure
> out how to bring the style inspector and build the CSS selectors for the
> right elements they want to tweak in order to have a
> subnormal-monocular-sight-friendly Element Web Matrix client. For other
> clients, like Revolt and Quaternium, the configurations for that are yet
> to be known.
>
> Also, contrary to XMPP which has at least two fully-functional
> free/libre software clients, for Matrix there is only Element non-Web
> has full functionalities of the protocol, and that is not even
> free/libre, because at least in Element Web you can't use the client's
> own search feature for conversation or media histories in encrypted
> conversations.
>
> Furthermore, the Matrix protocol itself is not internationally
> standardized (but rather auto/self-standardized, meaning that they can
> change that at any time), and some clients allow for link forgery since
> the Matrix protocol didn't dictate what would be the message format and
> clients decided to implement Markdown formatting, which is dangerous in
> the context of instant communications.
>
> Discarding audio/video conferencing support, Matrix servers take up more
> resources ([1]) than XMPP with all suites/parts of XEP-0443 ([2], again
> discarding audio/video conferencing).
>
> Also just like Matrix, XMPP servers and clients that support XEP-0313
> for both individual chats and group ones (MUC or MIX, although MUC is
> more popular) do provide ways for the user to catch room history
> (messages received by the room while that person was offline)
>
> While FSDG-fit distros have plenty of XMPP libraries, clients and
> servers, Matrix-related ones are lacking there, so one often has to
> thrust the single-language package manager installation instructions
> given by the library/client/server that you want to install, unless
> there is a FSDG-centric review of each of those
> apk/pip/npm/gems/docker/flatpak/rocks/cargo/snap packages/dependencies.
>
> To balance the sides, both Matrix and XMPP *do not* provide default
> bots/puppets/bridges/transports to other communication protocols. I was
> once lured by a person to investigate that since they claimed that
> Matrix had bridges for IRC, XMPP, and others *by default*. But it turns
> out that this is not the case, and you have to either trust the
> centralized Matrix.org or risk installing one yourself through the
> methods in the previous paragraph.
>
> Finally, there is also the privacy and centralization issues regarding
> Matrix, since it is mostly centered on Matrix.org (while there are
> instances that do provide account creation, only Matrix.org has
> bots/bridges/puppets which are clearly documented and exposed/discoverable).
>
>
> # References
>
>
> [1]: https://disroot.org/en/blog/matrix-closure .
>
> [2]: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0443.html .
>
> [3]: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html .
>
>

It seems like the FSF already has evaluated the possibility to use XMPP and Matrix, they declined both of them.

From https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-and-gnu-move-official-irc-channels-to-libera-chat-network: "Despite its age, IRC remains a strong favorite of the free software community. Although we are optimistic about the Matrix protocol and remain committed to following its development closely, we were not able to justify a full relocation of the FSF and GNU's official channels to a Matrix server. Doing so would create the unacceptable situation of encouraging a large number of users to run nonfree software in the form of nonfree _javascript_, which is used by the flagship Matrix.org server to authenticate users.

At the same time, we could not commit to moving fully over to XMPP, which would impose certain technical limitations on both users and FSF staff, and which does not offer many compelling advantages over IRC. We've also definitely heard from many of our members showing renewed interest in the XMPP server the FSF provides as an associate membership benefit, and we are looking at the possibility of devoting more resources to it. To reiterate, though IRC remains a key venue for communication in and around GNU and FSF, we are keeping an open mind and eye towards other existing or new communication protocols and software, including Matrix and XMPP, that enable users to communicate in freedom."