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Subject: |
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Changes by: GNUN <gnun> 13/12/31 07:11:47
Modified files:
philosophy/po : rms-on-radio-nz.translist
Added files:
philosophy : rms-on-radio-nz.ru.html
philosophy/po : rms-on-radio-nz.ru-en.html
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CVSWeb URLs:
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Patches:
Index: po/rms-on-radio-nz.translist
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RCS file: /web/www/www/philosophy/po/rms-on-radio-nz.translist,v
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retrieving revision 1.9
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--- po/rms-on-radio-nz.translist 31 Aug 2013 17:16:51 -0000 1.8
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@@ -4,6 +4,7 @@
<p>
<span dir="ltr" class="original"><a lang="en" hreflang="en"
href="/philosophy/rms-on-radio-nz.en.html">English</a> [en]</span>
<span dir="ltr"><a lang="fr" hreflang="fr"
href="/philosophy/rms-on-radio-nz.fr.html">français</a> [fr]</span>
+<span dir="ltr"><a lang="ru" hreflang="ru"
href="/philosophy/rms-on-radio-nz.ru.html">ÑÑÑÑкий</a> [ru]</span>
</p>
</div>' -->
<!--#if expr="$HTML_BODY = yes" -->
Index: rms-on-radio-nz.ru.html
===================================================================
RCS file: rms-on-radio-nz.ru.html
diff -N rms-on-radio-nz.ru.html
--- /dev/null 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 -0000
+++ rms-on-radio-nz.ru.html 31 Dec 2013 07:11:44 -0000 1.1
@@ -0,0 +1,1031 @@
+
+
+<!--#include virtual="/server/header.ru.html" -->
+<!-- Parent-Version: 1.75 -->
+
+<!-- This file is automatically generated by GNUnited Nations! -->
+ <!--#set var="ENGLISH_PAGE" value="/philosophy/rms-on-radio-nz.en.html" -->
+
+<title>СÑолмен на ÐовозеландÑком Ñадио -
ÐÑÐ¾ÐµÐºÑ GNU - Фонд Ñвободного пÑогÑаммного
+обеÑпеÑениÑ</title>
+
+<!--#include virtual="/philosophy/po/rms-on-radio-nz.translist" -->
+<!--#include virtual="/server/banner.ru.html" -->
+<h2>СÑолмен на ÐовозеландÑком Ñадио</h2>
+
+<p>СÑббоÑа, 3 окÑÑбÑÑ 2009 года, около 09:05</p>
+<p>ÐаÑионалÑное Ñадио Ðовой Ðеландии;
ÑÑббоÑнÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑедаÑа Ðима Хилла<br />
+ÐнÑеÑвÑÑ Ðима Хилла (ведÑÑего) Ñ Ð Ð¸ÑаÑдом
СÑолменом</p>
+<p>ÐапиÑÑ Ð¿ÑедоÑÑавлена Ðжимом ЧиÑÑмом <a
+href="mailto:address@hidden"><address@hidden></a> Ñ ÑазÑеÑениÑ
+ÐовозеландÑкого Ñадио.</p>
+
+<h3>РазделÑ</h3>
+<ul>
+<li>[00:00] Ðведение</li>
+<li>[00:40] Слежка</li>
+<li>[00:19] ТеÑÑоÑизм и 11 ÑенÑÑбÑÑ</li>
+<li>[04:30] ÐаÑак Ðбама</li>
+<li>[06:23] ÐезопаÑноÑÑÑ Ð½Ð° авиалиниÑÑ
</li>
+<li>[08:02] ЦиÑÑÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ñлежка</li>
+<li>[10:26] СиÑÑемаÑиÑеÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñлежка</li>
+<li>[12:20] Слежка в ÑакÑи</li>
+<li>[14:25] Ðело пÑинÑипа — ÑоÑовÑе
ÑелеÑонÑ</li>
+<li>[15:33] СвободнÑе пÑогÑÐ°Ð¼Ð¼Ñ Ð¸ Ñвобода</li>
+<li>[17:24] ÐоговоÑÑ Ð¾ Ñвободной ÑоÑговле</li>
+<li>[20:08] ÐвÑомобили, СÐЧ и ÑамолеÑÑ</li>
+<li>[21:05] ÐопиÑование книг</li>
+<li>[25:31] ÐлекÑÑоннÑе книги и поддеÑжка
иÑкÑÑÑÑва</li>
+<li>[28:42] ÐикÑоплаÑежи</li>
+<li>[30:47] ÐÑимиÑÐ¸Ð²Ð½Ð°Ñ ÑилоÑоÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»Ð¸Ñики?</li>
+<li>[32:51] ÐоÑ
од</li>
+<li>[33:48] ЦиÑÑовÑе наÑÑÑники — Amazon Kindle</li>
+<li>[36:13] ÐокÑпка книг</li>
+<li>[37:16] СоÑиалÑнÑе ÑеÑи</li>
+<li>[38:08] <abbr>ACTA</abbr></li>
+</ul>
+
+
+<dl>
+<dt>[00:00]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐекоÑоÑое вÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð½Ð°Ð·Ð°Ð´, в пÑоÑлом годÑ, мÑ
говоÑили Ñ Ð Ð¸ÑаÑдом СÑолменом о
+его боÑÑбе за ÑвободнÑе пÑогÑаммÑ. Ðн,
конеÑно, геÑой ÑÑого движениÑ; он
+оÑганизовал Фонд Ñвободного пÑогÑаммного
обеÑпеÑениÑ, боÑеÑÑÑ Ð¿ÑоÑив
+паÑенÑов на пÑогÑÐ°Ð¼Ð¼Ñ Ð¸ ÑаÑÑиÑениÑ
законов об авÑоÑÑком пÑаве. Ðак он Ñказал
+нам в пÑоÑлом годÑ, он ÑÑажаеÑÑÑ Ð¿ÑоÑив
Ñого, ÑÑо он назÑÐ²Ð°ÐµÑ ÐºÑайноÑÑÑми
+капиÑализма. Ðго опеÑаÑÐ¸Ð¾Ð½Ð½Ð°Ñ ÑиÑÑема GNU Ñ
Linux ÑÑала пеÑвой Ñвободной
+опеÑаÑионной ÑиÑÑемой, под ÑпÑавлением
коÑоÑой мог ÑабоÑаÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑÑоналÑнÑй
+компÑÑÑеÑ. РиÑаÑд СÑолмен говоÑиÑ: “ÐÑе
дело в Ñвободе”,—
+а ÑÑо вÑÑ
Ð¾Ð´Ð¸Ñ Ð·Ð° пÑÐµÐ´ÐµÐ»Ñ Ð¿ÑогÑаммиÑованиÑ;
и Ñ Ð½Ð°Ñ ÐµÑÑÑ Ð²Ð¾Ð·Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶Ð½Ð¾ÑÑÑ
+поговоÑиÑÑ Ð¾ дÑÑгиÑ
вопÑоÑаÑ
, коÑоÑÑе он
заÑÑонÑл — Ñлежке и
+ÑензÑÑе — поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо он ÑейÑаÑ
пÑиÑоединиÑÑÑ ÐºÐ¾
+мне. ÐдÑавÑÑвÑйÑе!</dd>
+
+<dt>[00:40]<br />
+РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐдÑавÑÑвÑйÑе!</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐоговоÑим о Ñлежке и ÑензÑÑе. Я
пÑоÑмаÑÑивал Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð»Ð¸ÑнÑй ÑайÑ, на нем вÑ
+говоÑиÑе, напÑимеÑ, о ÑбоÑе оÑпеÑаÑков
палÑÑев Ñ Ð°Ð²Ð¸Ð°Ð¿Ð°ÑÑажиÑов, Ð²Ð°Ñ ÑÑо
+оÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ð²Ð¾Ð·Ð¼ÑÑаеÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, Ñ Ð¿ÑизÑÐ²Ð°Ñ Ð»Ñдей оÑказÑваÑÑÑÑ Ð¾Ñ
поездок в СШÐ, где Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ð¼Ð¸ обÑаÑалиÑÑ Ð±Ñ
+подобнÑм обÑазом.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐоÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð²Ñ Ð´ÑмаеÑе, ÑÑо Ñакое обÑаÑение
недопÑÑÑимо?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐоÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо Ñакое колиÑеÑÑво инÑоÑмаÑии
можно ÑобиÑаÑÑ ÑолÑко о
+пÑеÑÑÑпникаÑ
. Ð, Ð¼ÐµÐ¶Ð´Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑим, по ÑÑой же
пÑиÑине Ñ Ð½Ð¸ÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð´Ð° болÑÑе не поедÑ
+в ЯпониÑ, еÑли они не изменÑÑ ÑÑо пÑавило.
ÐÑо оÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ð¾Ð±Ð¸Ð´Ð½Ð¾, но Ñеловек
+должен...</dd>
+
+<dt>[01:19]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑо неопÑÐ°Ð²Ð´Ð°Ð½Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð¼ÐµÑа Ð´Ð»Ñ Ñого, ÑÑобÑ
не даÑÑ ÑеÑÑоÑиÑÑам ÑеÑÑÑ Ð½Ð° ÑамолеÑ?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑо не нÑжно. Ðо ÑÑÑи, ÑеÑÑоÑизм... междÑ
пÑоÑим, Ð¼Ñ Ñолком не знаем, кÑо
+виновен в ÑеÑÑоÑиÑÑиÑеÑкиÑ
акÑаÑ
,
ÑовеÑÑеннÑÑ
11 ÑенÑÑбÑÑ Ð² СШÐ,
+Ð¼Ñ Ð½Ðµ знаем, бÑла ли ÑÑо кÑÑка иÑламÑкиÑ
ÑанаÑиков или кÑÑка Ñ
ÑиÑÑианÑкиÑ
+ÑанаÑиков и ÐелÑй дом. Ðнаем Ð¼Ñ Ñо, ÑÑо ÐÑÑ
подкÑпил и ÑабоÑиÑовал
+ÑаÑÑледование, когда не Ñмог помеÑаÑÑ ÐµÐ¼Ñ
наÑаÑÑÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑак, Ð²Ñ — ÑÑоÑонник ÑеоÑий
заговоÑа вокÑÑг ÑÑиÑ
ÑобÑÑий?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Я не ÑвеÑен... пÑежде вÑего, Ñ ÑÑиÑаÑ, ÑÑо
ÑÑо неÑеÑÑно — мÑ
+знаем, ÑÑо ÑÑо бÑл заговоÑ. ÐÑе ÑеоÑии
ÑÑÑоÑÑÑÑ Ð½Ð° заговоÑе.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ХоÑоÑо, напÑимеÑ, ÑеоÑÐ¸Ñ Ð·Ð°Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾Ñа, по
коÑоÑой админиÑÑÑаÑÐ¸Ñ ÐÑÑа подгоÑовила
+ÑеÑÑоÑиÑÑиÑеÑкий акÑ, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¾Ð¿ÑавдаÑÑ...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Я не знаÑ. ÐолÑÑиÑÑ Ð´Ð¾ÐºÐ°Ð·Ð°ÑелÑÑÑво можно
бÑло ÑолÑко ÑÑаÑелÑнÑм
+ÑаÑÑледованием, но когда Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð³Ð¾ÑÑдаÑÑÑво
не допÑÑÐºÐ°ÐµÑ Ñолком ÑаÑÑледоваÑÑ
+ÑжаÑное пÑеÑÑÑпление, Ñо вам оÑÑаеÑÑÑ
подозÑеваÑÑ, ÑÑо оно ÑÑо-Ñо
+ÑкÑÑваеÑ. Так воÑ, Ñ Ð½Ðµ Ð·Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð½Ð°Ð²ÐµÑное, ÑÑо
они ÑкÑÑваÑÑ, но Ñ Ñ
оÑÑ, ÑÑобÑ
+пÑовели ÑÑаÑелÑное ÑаÑÑледование,
ÑполномоÑенное допÑаÑиваÑÑ Ð²ÑеÑ
пÑиÑаÑÑнÑÑ
+к делÑ, в Ñом ÑиÑле ÐÑÑа, и бÑаÑÑ Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ñ
Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÐ°Ð·Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ пÑиÑÑгой, и не даваÑÑ
+им никакиÑ
поблажек ÑвеÑÑ
положеннÑÑ
обÑÑнÑм лÑдÑм.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðаже еÑли оÑложиÑÑ Ð² ÑÑоÑонÑ
ÑенÑÑбÑÑÑкие ÑобÑÑиÑ, поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо Ñ Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð½ÐµÑ
+вÑемени ÑазбиÑаÑÑ ÑазлиÑнÑе ÑеоÑии о Ñом,
Ñем ÑÑи ÑобÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ð±Ñли вÑзванÑ, вÑе
+Ñавно ÑÑÑеÑÑвование ÑеÑÑоÑизма
беÑÑпоÑно.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, но ÑÑо вÑоÑоÑÑÐµÐ¿ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ñоблема. Ð
ÑенÑÑбÑе 2001 года болÑÑе лÑдей в СШÐ
+погибло в авÑокаÑаÑÑÑоÑаÑ
, Ñем в
ÑеÑÑоÑиÑÑиÑеÑкиÑ
акÑаÑ
, и Ñак меÑÑÑ Ð·Ð°
+меÑÑÑем, однако Ð¼Ñ Ð½Ðµ ведем миÑовой Ð²Ð¾Ð¹Ð½Ñ Ñ
авÑокаÑаÑÑÑоÑами, Ñак ÑÑо по
+ÑÑÑи полиÑики воÑполÑзовалиÑÑ ÑеалÑной
ÑгÑозой, но не Ñамой ÑÑÑаÑной миÑовой
+ÑгÑозой, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¾Ð¿ÑавдаÑÑ Ñвои дейÑÑвиÑ, а Ñ
оÑÑÑ Ð¾Ð½Ð¸, ÑÑобÑ... и не
+забÑвайÑе, ÑÑо ÑÑи гоÑÑдаÑÑÑва гоÑаздо
опаÑнее, ÑовеÑÑенно оÑевидно, ÑÑо
+вÑоÑжение ÐÑÑа в ÐÑак бÑло гоÑаздо
ÑазÑÑÑиÑелÑнее, Ñем Ñо, на ÑÑо ÑпоÑобнÑ
+лÑбÑе ÑеÑÑоÑиÑÑÑ, коÑоÑÑÑ
не поддеÑживаеÑ
гоÑÑдаÑÑÑво — в
+пÑедположении, ÑÑо ÑеÑÑоÑиÑÑов,
дейÑÑвовавÑиÑ
в ÑенÑÑбÑе 2001 года не
+поддеÑживало гоÑÑдаÑÑÑво (на Ñамом деле мÑ
ÑÑого не знаем); но дело в Ñом,
+ÑÑо Ñо, ÑÑо ÐÑÑ Ñделал, заÑ
ваÑив ÐÑак,
воÑполÑзовавÑиÑÑ ÐºÐ°Ðº поводом ÑÑими
+ÑеÑÑоÑиÑÑиÑеÑкими акÑами, бÑло неизмеÑимо
Ñ
Ñже, и Ð¼Ñ Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð½Ð¸ÑÑ, ÑÑо
+ÑаÑпоÑÑавÑиеÑÑ Ð¿ÑавиÑелÑÑÑва могÑÑ
пÑиÑиниÑÑ Ð³Ð¾Ñаздо болÑÑий ÑÑеÑб, Ñем кÑо
+Ñгодно без гоÑÑдаÑÑÑвенной поддеÑжки.
+
+РконÑе конÑов, Ñ Ð¿ÑавиÑелÑÑÑва гоÑаздо
болÑÑе лÑдей под ÑÑжÑем, и им не
+пÑиÑ
одиÑÑÑ ÑкÑÑваÑÑ ÑÐ¾Ñ ÑакÑ, ÑÑо Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ñ
еÑÑÑ Ð²Ð¾Ð¾ÑÑженнÑе лÑди, Ñак ÑÑо им
+кÑда Ñдобнее наноÑиÑÑ ÑÑеÑб, Ñак ÑÑо мÑ
Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ñ Ð±ÐµÑпокоиÑÑÑÑ Ð¾ Ñом, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¸Ñ
+влаÑÑÑ Ð½Ðµ бÑла ÑлиÑком велика. ÐиÑ, в
коÑоÑом полиÑÐ¸Ñ Ð»ÐµÐ³ÐºÐ¾ Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÑÑ
+вÑе, ÑÑо ей Ñгодно,— ÑÑо миÑ, в коÑоÑом
полиÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¿ÑедÑÑавлÑÐµÑ ÑгÑозÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>[04:30]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>РпÑоÑлÑй Ñаз Ð¼Ñ Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾Ñили о пÑоблеме
ÑвободнÑÑ
пÑогÑамм, но в Ñом аÑпекÑе,
+ÑÑо Ð²Ñ ÑомневаеÑеÑÑ, ÑÑо ÑледÑÑÑий за
ÐÑÑем пÑÐµÐ·Ð¸Ð´ÐµÐ½Ñ — как ÑÑало
+извеÑÑно, ÑÑо ÐаÑак Ðбама — бÑÐ´ÐµÑ Ñ
оÑÑ Ñем-нибÑÐ´Ñ Ð»ÑÑÑе ÐÑÑа.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðн немного дÑÑгой, но Ñ Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶ÐµÐ½ ÑказаÑÑ,
ÑÑо ÑазниÑа невелика. ЧÑо каÑаеÑÑÑ
+пÑав Ñеловека, Ñо болÑÑой ÑазниÑÑ Ð½ÐµÑ. Ðн
Ñоже за Ñо, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð´ÐµÑжаÑÑ Ð»Ñдей в
+ÑÑÑÑмаÑ
неопÑеделенное вÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð±ÐµÐ·
обвинениÑ, а Ñ ÑоÑки зÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ñав Ñеловека
+ÑÑÑдно пÑедÑÑавиÑÑ Ñебе ÑÑо-Ñо Ñ
ÑдÑее.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, еÑли не ÑÑиÑаÑÑ, ÑÑо он занимаеÑÑÑ
ÐÑаÑанамÑкой ÑÑÑÑмой.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Так Ð²ÐµÐ´Ñ ÑÑо ÑолÑко одно из меÑÑ, где ÑÑо
пÑоиÑÑ
одиÑ, ÑÑо делаÑÑ Ð¸ в ÐагÑаме
+в ÐÑганиÑÑане, и Ñ Ð½Ð¸ÐºÐ°Ðº не возÑÐ¼Ñ Ð² Ñолк,
поÑÐµÐ¼Ñ ÑÑиÑ
лÑдей лÑÑÑе пеÑевеÑÑи
+в ÐагÑам. ÐÑ
надо бÑло ÑÑдиÑÑ Ð¸Ð»Ð¸
вÑпÑÑÑиÑÑ. У ниÑ
еÑÑÑ Ð½Ð° ÑÑо пÑаво.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑ Ð±ÑÑÑ, Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ñ
еÑÑÑ Ð¿Ñаво, но кÑоме
Ñого, он — пÑезиденÑ,
+избÑаннÑй демокÑаÑиÑеÑким пÑÑем...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑо не знаÑиÑ, ÑÑо Ñ Ð½ÐµÐ³Ð¾ еÑÑÑ
пÑеÑогаÑива наÑÑÑаÑÑ Ð¿Ñава Ñеловека.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, но Ñазве амеÑиканÑкий наÑод за Ñо,
ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¸Ñ
вÑпÑÑÑиÑÑ...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Я не знаÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>...ÑÑо ÑледÑÐµÑ Ð¿ÑинимаÑÑ Ð²Ð¾ внимание.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐеÑ, не ÑледÑеÑ; еÑли они пÑоÑив, они
пÑоÑÑо ÑÑановÑÑÑÑ Ðº ÑÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ Ð¿ÑиÑаÑÑнÑми.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Я понимаÑ, ÑÑо вÑ...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Я не дÑмаÑ, ÑÑо Ð¼Ð¾Ð³Ñ Ð¾Ð¿ÑавдаÑÑ Ð¼Ð°ÑÑовÑе
наÑÑÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ñав Ñеловека, говоÑÑ, ÑÑо
+обÑеÑÑвенноÑÑÑ Ð²Ð·Ð±ÑдоÑажена и
поддеÑÐ¶Ð¸Ð²Ð°ÐµÑ ÑÑо. Рв ÑаÑÑноÑÑи, поÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð¾Ð½Ð¸
+Ñак взбÑдоÑаженÑ? Ðз-за непÑекÑаÑаÑÑейÑÑ
пÑопагандÑ, коÑоÑÐ°Ñ Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑÐ¸Ñ Ð²Ð°Ð¼:
+“УжаÑайÑеÑÑ ÑеÑÑоÑиÑÑов, вÑбÑоÑÑÑе
Ñвои пÑава Ñеловека и пÑава вÑеÑ
+дÑÑгиÑ
лÑдей, поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо Ð²Ñ Ñак запÑганÑ
ÑÑими ÑеÑÑоÑиÑÑами”. ÐÑо
+неÑоÑазмеÑно, нам нÑжно ÑоÑазмеÑÑÑÑ Ð¾ÑвеÑ
на ÑÑи ÑгÑÐ¾Ð·Ñ Ñ Ð¸Ñ
велиÑиной, неÑ
+кампании, в Ñ
оде коÑоÑой говоÑÑÑ:
“ÐойÑеÑÑ ÑадиÑÑÑÑ Ð²
+авÑомобилє,— Ñ
оÑÑ, Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑ Ð±ÑÑÑ, ÑакаÑ
ÐºÐ°Ð¼Ð¿Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ð° бÑÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>[06:23]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐозвÑаÑаÑÑÑ Ðº оÑпеÑаÑкам палÑÑев,
безопаÑноÑÑÑ Ð½Ð° авиалиниÑÑ
, как вÑ
+Ñказали, по болÑÑей ÑаÑÑи пÑоÑÑо
бÑÑаÑоÑиÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðо многом, но не во вÑем, Ñ Ð¾ÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ñад, ÑÑо
они ÑÑилили двеÑи в кабинÑ, ÑÑобÑ
+ÑгонÑики не могли доÑÑаÑÑ Ð´Ð¾ пилоÑов, Ñ
оÑоÑо, ÑÑо ÑазÑÐ¼Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð¼ÐµÑа.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðо как же Ñак? Я ожидал, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ ÑкажеÑе:
“ÐаÑем они ÑÑаÑÑÑ Ð´ÐµÐ½Ñги на
+ÑÑиление двеÑей в кабинÑ, еÑли ÑгонÑики не
пÑедÑÑавлÑÑÑ ÑеÑÑезной
+пÑоблемÑ?”</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Я не пÑоÑив Ñого, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ÑÑаÑиÑÑ
немного денег.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðо ваÑим Ñловам, ÑÑа пÑоблема не ÑвÑзана
Ñ Ð½Ð°ÑÑÑением пÑав Ñеловека.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ Ð´Ð°, и Ñ Ð½Ðµ пÑоÑив Ñого, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ÑÑаÑиÑÑ
денÑги на безопаÑноÑÑÑ, Ñ Ð´Ð°Ð¶Ðµ, к
+ÑловÑ, Ð¸Ð´Ñ Ð½Ð° компÑомиÑÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾ вопÑоÑам пÑав,
Ñ Ð½Ðµ говоÑÑ, ÑÑо полиÑии нелÑзÑ
+вÑдаваÑÑ Ð¾ÑдеÑа на обÑÑк, но они должнÑ
обÑзаÑелÑно ÑÑ
одиÑÑ Ðº ÑÑдÑе, ÑÑобÑ
+ÑказаÑÑ Ð½Ð° веÑоÑÑное пÑавонаÑÑÑение,
ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð½Ð°Ð´ полиÑейÑкими бÑл конÑÑолÑ,
+поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо полиÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¾ÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ð¾Ð¿Ð°Ñна, когда вÑÑ
Ð¾Ð´Ð¸Ñ Ð¸Ð· ÑздÑ, как ÑÑо неÑколÑко
+меÑÑÑев назад наблÑдали лÑди в Ðондоне,
они Ñбили кого-Ñо на обÑаÑном пÑÑи Ñ
+акÑии пÑоÑеÑÑа, и он не Ñмог добÑаÑÑÑÑ Ð´Ð¾
дома, поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо полиÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¸Ð·
+ÑиÑÑого пÑоизвола пеÑекÑÑла ÑлиÑÑ, а поÑом
они его пÑибили. РзаÑем они еÑе
+и лгали об ÑÑом, Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ñ
ÑÑо пÑивÑÑное дело.
ÐаждÑй Ñаз, когда полиÑÐ¸Ñ Ð½Ð°
+кого-Ñо нападаеÑ, они лгÑÑ Ð¾ нем — о
Ñом, ÑÑо они делали, и о
+Ñом, ÑÑо он делал, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ ÑолÑко иÑ
недопÑÑÑимое обÑаÑение Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ð¼ вÑглÑдело
+опÑавданнÑм; ÑÑо обÑÑÐ½Ð°Ñ Ð¿ÑакÑика,
они — как вооÑÑÐ¶ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð±Ð°Ð½Ð´Ð°.</dd>
+
+<dt>[08:02]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑли Ð²Ñ Ð½Ðµ ÑоглаÑÐ½Ñ Ð½Ð° ÑлежкÑ, Ñо можеÑе
ли Ð²Ñ ÐºÐ°ÐºÐ¸Ð¼-Ñо обÑазом пÑинÑÑÑ Ñо,
+ÑÑо бÑло Ð±Ñ Ð¾ÑÐµÐ½Ñ ÑдобнÑм — CCTV...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐинÑÑкÑ, ваÑе понимание Ñлежки ÑлиÑком
вÑе ÑпÑоÑаеÑ. Ðак Ñ Ð²Ð¸Ð¶Ñ, Ñ
+компÑÑÑеÑами пÑоиÑÑ
Ð¾Ð´Ð¸Ñ Ñо, ÑÑо они
Ñоздали возможноÑÑÑ Ð¾Ñобого Ñода
+вÑеобÑемлÑÑей Ñлежки, ÑÑо в пÑоÑлом бÑло
недоÑÑижимо, даже в ÑакиÑ
ÑежимаÑ
,
+как Ð ÑмÑÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ñи ЧаÑÑеÑкÑ, ÐоÑÑоÑнаÑ
ÐеÑÐ¼Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ñи ШÑази — они вели
+болÑÑÑÑ ÑлежкÑ, но Ð´Ð»Ñ ÑабоÑÑ Ð½Ð°Ð´ ÑÑим
ÑÑебовалоÑÑ Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑÑое ÑиÑло лÑдей, и
+даже Ñогда Ñо, ÑÑо они на Ñамом деле могли
оÑÑлеживаÑÑ Ð¸ запиÑÑваÑÑ, бÑло
+огÑаниÑено, поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо ÑÑо бÑло оÑенÑ
ÑÑÑдно. Так воÑ, Ð¼Ñ Ð²ÑÑÑпаем в Ñвоего
+Ñода обÑеÑÑво невиданной доÑеле
Ñлежки...</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑиÑе о ÑиÑÑовой Ñлежке.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, но по меÑе Ñого как лÑди вÑе болÑÑе
полÑзÑÑÑÑÑ ÑиÑÑовой ÑеÑ
никой,
+ÑÑановиÑÑÑ Ð»ÐµÐ³ÐºÐ¾ оÑÑлеживаÑÑ Ð²Ñе, ÑÑо
Ñделал каждÑй, ÑанÑÑе ÑÑого не делали,
+да и ÑейÑÐ°Ñ Ð² дÑÑгиÑ
ÑÑеÑаÑ
ÑÑого не
делаÑÑ, не оÑÑлеживаÑÑ, кÑо оÑÑÑлаеÑ
+каждое пиÑÑмо и комÑ, ÑÑого не делаÑÑ. Ðо во
многиÑ
ÑÑÑанаÑ
оÑÑлеживаÑÑ, кÑо
+поÑÑÐ»Ð°ÐµÑ ÑлекÑÑонное пиÑÑмо и комÑ, и ÑÑи
запиÑи могÑÑ Ñ
ÑаниÑÑÑÑ Ð³Ð¾Ð´Ð°Ð¼Ð¸, мÑ
+не знаем, ÑниÑÑожаÑÑÑÑ Ð»Ð¸ они Ñ
оÑÑ
когда-нибÑдÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑли Ð²Ñ Ð´ÑмаеÑе, ÑÑо гоÑÑдаÑÑÑÐ²Ñ Ð½Ðµ
ÑледÑÐµÑ Ð´Ð¾Ð²ÐµÑÑÑÑ, ÑÑо, конеÑно, ÑвлÑеÑÑÑ
+пÑавомеÑной позиÑией, и еÑли Ð²Ñ Ð´ÑмаеÑе,
ÑÑо полиÑии не ÑледÑÐµÑ Ð´Ð¾Ð²ÐµÑÑÑÑ,
+ÑÑо опÑÑÑ-Ñаки ÑвлÑеÑÑÑ Ð·Ð°ÐºÐ¾Ð½Ð½Ð¾Ð¹ позиÑией,
Ñо поÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð½Ðµ Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑ ÑадоваÑÑ
+ÑиÑÑÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ñлежка и Ñлежка в CCTV, ÑÑиÑÑваÑ,
ÑÑо они могли Ð±Ñ Ð´Ð°Ð²Ð°ÑÑ Ð»ÑдÑм и
+повÑÑеннÑÑ Ð·Ð°ÑиÑÑ?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ð, Ñ Ð²Ñеми ÑÑками за пÑаво делаÑÑ
видеозапиÑи, напÑимеÑ, когда Ð²Ñ Ð½Ð° ÑлиÑе
+или когда Ð²Ñ Ð½Ð°Ð±Ð»ÑдаеÑе акÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑеÑÑа и
Ñак далее, но Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ Ð±ÐµÑпокоиÑ
+ÑиÑÑемаÑиÑеÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñлежка.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ЧÑо ÑÑо Ñакое — ÑиÑÑемаÑиÑеÑкаÑ
Ñлежка?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, допÑÑÑим, еÑли полиÑÐ¸Ñ ÑÑÑанавливаеÑ
камеÑÑ, коÑоÑÐ°Ñ Ð²ÐµÐ´ÐµÑ Ð¿Ð¾ÑÑоÑнное
+наблÑдение за ÑлиÑей, подклÑÑÐ°ÐµÑ ÐµÐµ к
пÑогÑамме ÑаÑÐ¿Ð¾Ð·Ð½Ð°Ð²Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð»Ð¸Ñ Ð¸ заноÑиÑ
+в Ð±Ð°Ð·Ñ Ð´Ð°Ð½Ð½ÑÑ
каждого пÑоÑ
ожего, Ñо ÑÑо
ÑиÑÑемаÑиÑеÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñлежка. РеÑли вÑ
+гÑлÑеÑе по ÑлиÑе, ÑвидиÑе кого-Ñо
знакомого и опознаеÑе его, Ñо ÑÑо не
+ÑиÑÑемаÑиÑеÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñлежка, ÑÑо ÑÐµÐ»Ð°Ñ ÐºÑÑа
лÑдей, коÑоÑÑе ÑÑо-Ñо знаÑÑ, ÑÑÑ
+ниÑего Ñакого неÑ, ÑÑо дело жиÑейÑкое.</dd>
+
+<dt>[10:26]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐоÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð²Ð°Ð¼ Ñак не по вкÑÑÑ
ÑиÑÑемаÑиÑеÑÐºÐ°Ñ Ñлежка?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐоÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо Ð¼Ñ Ð·Ð½Ð°ÐµÐ¼, ÑÑо ÑазнÑе пÑавÑÑие
ÑÐµÐ¶Ð¸Ð¼Ñ ÑÐºÐ»Ð¾Ð½Ð½Ñ Ð·Ð°Ð¿Ð¸ÑÑваÑÑ
+диÑÑиденÑов в ÑеÑÑоÑиÑÑÑ Ð¸ пÑоводÑÑ Ð½Ð°Ð´
ними ÑаÑÑледование по законам,
+коÑоÑÑе ÑÐºÐ¾Ð±Ñ ÑÑÑановленÑ, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð¾Ð³Ð°ÑÑ
гоÑÑдаÑÑÑвеннÑм оÑганам в боÑÑбе Ñ
+ÑеÑÑоÑизмом. ÐÑе Ð¼Ñ Ð·Ð½Ð°ÐµÐ¼, ÑÑо они ÑклоннÑ
подÑÑваÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»Ð¸ÑиÑеÑкÑÑ
+деÑÑелÑноÑÑÑ, а ÑÑо опаÑно.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ЧÑо плоÑ
ого в Ñом, ÑÑо над лÑдÑми
пÑоводÑÑ ÑаÑÑледование?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, ÑÑо завиÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¾Ñ Ð¿ÑиÑинÑ
ÑаÑÑледованиÑ. ÐÑли оÑÐ³Ð°Ð½Ñ Ð·Ð°Ð²ÐµÐ»Ð¸ на ваÑ
дело
+поÑомÑ, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»Ð¸ÑиÑеÑкий диÑÑиденÑ, Ñо
еÑÑÑ Ð¼Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¾ ÑпоÑобов на ваÑ
+надавиÑÑ. ÐапÑимеÑ, Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¼Ð½Ñ, как в Ðнглии
полнÑй авÑобÑÑ
+пÑоÑеÑÑÑÑÑиÑ
— они еÑ
али на акÑиÑ
пÑоÑеÑÑа — полиÑиÑ
+оÑÑановила иÑ
авÑобÑÑ Ð¸ Ñвезла иÑ
в дÑÑгое
меÑÑо, ÑоÑлавÑиÑÑ Ð½Ð° закон,
+коÑоÑÑй пÑовели ÑÐºÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð±Ð¾ÑÑÐ±Ñ Ñ
ÑеÑÑоÑизмом. Так воÑ, ÑÑо подÑÑв
+полиÑиÑеÑкой деÑÑелÑноÑÑи. РпоÑом, мне
еÑе извеÑÑно, как в Ðнглии лÑдей
+пÑеÑледовали за копии ÑекÑÑов, коÑоÑÑе Ñ
ниÑ
бÑли — понимаеÑе,
+иногда закон запÑеÑÐ°ÐµÑ ÑиÑаÑÑ, ÑÑо оÑенÑ
опаÑно. ÐÑ Ð½Ð°Ð±Ð»Ñдаем миÑовÑÑ
+ÑенденÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¿ÑавÑÑиÑ
Ñежимов пÑоÑвлÑÑÑ Ð²Ñе Ñ
ÑдÑее, ÑÑо в ниÑ
еÑÑÑ, под
+пÑедлогом боÑÑÐ±Ñ Ñ ÑеÑÑоÑизмом, Ñак ÑÑо мÑ
Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ñ Ð±ÑÑÑ Ð½Ð°ÑÐµÐºÑ Ð¸
+пÑоÑивоÑÑоÑÑÑ ÑÑомÑ, ÑÑа опаÑноÑÑÑ
гоÑаздо болÑÑе ÑеÑÑоÑизма, Ð¾Ñ ÐºÐ¾ÑоÑого
+они Ð½Ð°Ñ ÑÐºÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð·Ð°ÑиÑаÑÑ. Я не Ñ
оÑÑ ÑказаÑÑ,
ÑÑо ÑеÑÑоÑиÑÑов не ÑÑÑеÑÑвÑÐµÑ Ð¸Ð»Ð¸
+ÑÑо они ÑовÑем не опаÑнÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐеÑ, ÑÑÑдноÑÑÑ — в Ñом, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð±ÑÑÑ
наÑÐµÐºÑ Ð¸ пÑоÑивоÑÑоÑÑÑ
+опаÑноÑÑи, о коÑоÑой Ð²Ñ Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑиÑе, не
ÑÑÑÑпаÑ...</dd>
+
+<dt>[12:20]<br />
+РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, неÑ, Ñ Ð·Ð´ÐµÑÑ Ð½Ðµ Ð²Ð¸Ð¶Ñ Ð½Ð¸ÐºÐ°ÐºÐ¸Ñ
заÑÑÑднений. У полиÑии еÑÑÑ Ð¼Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¾ ÑÑедÑÑв
+Ð´Ð»Ñ ÑаÑÑледований над лÑдÑми, и каждÑй Ñаз,
когда Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ñ
еÑÑÑ ÐºÐ¾Ð½ÐºÑеÑнаÑ
+пÑиÑина подозÑеваÑÑ Ð¾Ð¿ÑеделеннÑÑ
лÑдей,
они по ÑÑÑи в лÑбой Ð¼Ð¾Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ Ð¼Ð¾Ð³ÑÑ
+полÑÑиÑÑ ÑазÑеÑение на какой Ð±Ñ Ñо ни бÑло
обÑÑк. Так ÑÑо ÑÑо, допÑÑÑим,
+необÑ
одимо, но нам нÑжно ÑледиÑÑ Ð·Ð° Ñем,
ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð½Ðµ заÑ
одиÑÑ Ð´Ð°Ð»ÑÑе ÑÑого, а
+обÑеÑÑво ÑиÑÑовой Ñлежки Ð¸Ð´ÐµÑ Ð´Ð°Ð»ÐµÐºÐ¾ за
ÑÑи пÑеделÑ, еÑÑÑ ÑенденÑÐ¸Ñ Ð²Ñе
+запиÑÑваÑÑ, вÑе конÑÑолиÑоваÑÑ. Ð
ÐÑÑ-ÐоÑке, напÑимеÑ, ÑакÑиÑÑ Ð¼Ð½Ðµ
+ÑаÑÑказал, ÑÑо Ð¾Ñ Ð½ÐµÐ³Ð¾ поÑÑебовали
ÑÑÑановиÑÑ ÐºÐ°Ð¼ÐµÑÑ, коÑоÑÐ°Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ Ñадио
+пеÑÐµÐ´Ð°ÐµÑ Ð² полиÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¸Ð·Ð¾Ð±ÑÐ°Ð¶ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð»Ð¸Ñа
паÑÑажиÑа, коÑоÑое они пÑопÑÑкаÑÑ ÑеÑез
+ÑаÑпознавание лиÑ.
+Я не дÑмаÑ, ÑÑо ÑÑо должно бÑÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð·Ð²Ð¾Ð»ÐµÐ½Ð¾. Я
не пÑоÑив Ñого, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ñ
+бÑла ÑиÑÑема, коÑоÑÐ°Ñ Ð·Ð°Ð¿Ð¸ÑÑÐ²Ð°ÐµÑ Ð»Ð¸Ñа
лÑдей и ÑоÑ
ÑанÑÐµÑ Ð¸Ñ
в ÑеÑение недели
+на ÑлÑÑай, еÑли кÑо-Ñо Ð½Ð°Ð¿Ð°Ð´ÐµÑ Ð½Ð° ÑакÑиÑÑа;
нам ниÑего не бÑдеÑ, еÑли Ð¼Ñ Ð½Ðµ
+нападаем на ÑакÑиÑÑов. ÐÑ Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÐ¼ пÑименÑÑÑ
ÑледÑÑÑÑ Ð°Ð¿Ð¿Ð°ÑаÑÑÑÑ Ñак, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ ÑÑо
+не ÑгÑожало пÑавам лÑдей, но нам нÑжно
гаÑанÑиÑоваÑÑ, ÑÑо она пÑименÑеÑÑÑ
+именно Ñак.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑÑ
одиÑ, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ Ð¾Ð¿ÑавдÑваеÑе Ñо, ÑÑо Ñ
лÑдÑми обÑаÑаÑÑÑÑ Ñак, как еÑли бÑ
+они ÑобиÑалиÑÑ Ð½Ð°Ð¿Ð°ÑÑÑ Ð½Ð° ÑакÑиÑÑа...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðо поймиÑе, дело в Ñом, ÑÑо на ниÑ
не
бÑдÑÑ ÑмоÑÑеÑÑ, еÑли не ÑовеÑÑено
+пÑеÑÑÑпление, коÑоÑое надо ÑаÑÑледоваÑÑ, а
поÑом, еÑли ÑÑо пÑавилÑно
+ÑÑÑÑоено, запиÑи ÑÑиÑаÑÑ; но в ÐÑÑ-ÐоÑке
ÑÑо ÑейÑÐ°Ñ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÑÑ Ñак: запиÑи
+оÑÑÑлаÑÑ Ð² полиÑиÑ, а полиÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¾ÑÑлеживаеÑ,
кÑо и кÑда Ñ
одиÑ, а ÑÑо-Ñо Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ Ð¸
+пÑгаеÑ. То, ÑÑо в полиÑии могÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´Ð½ÑÑÑ Ð²Ñе
ÑÐ²ÐµÐ´ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¾ Ñом, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°Ð»Ð¸ в
+ÑеÑение долгиÑ
леÑ, как ÑолÑко заÑ
оÑÑÑ. ÐÑ,
по ÑÑой пÑиÑине Ñ, кÑоме
+пÑоÑего, никогда ниÑего не покÑÐ¿Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ð¾
кÑедиÑнÑм каÑÑам, еÑли ÑолÑко не
+ÑÑебÑеÑÑÑ, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¾Ð½Ð¸ вÑе Ñавно знали, кÑо Ñ
Ñакой; Ñ Ð½Ðµ полÑзÑÑÑÑ Ð½Ð¸
+кÑедиÑной каÑÑой, ни дÑÑгими ÑиÑÑовÑми
меÑодами, Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÑÐ¿Ð°Ñ Ð·Ð° налиÑнÑе, Ñак
+ÑÑо СÑаÑÑий ÐÑÐ°Ñ Ð½Ðµ заноÑÐ¸Ñ Ð² Ð±Ð°Ð·Ñ Ð´Ð°Ð½Ð½ÑÑ
запиÑÑ Ð¾ каждом меÑÑе, где Ñ
+побÑвал и ÑÑо-Ñо кÑпил, ÑÑо Ñ Ñам кÑпил.</dd>
+
+<dt>[14:25]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑо дело пÑинÑипа, а не...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑо дело пÑинÑипа. ÐÑо не вопÑоÑ
ÑдобÑÑва.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðа Ñамом деле Ð²Ñ Ð¼Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¾Ð³Ð¾ не делаеÑе.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, Ñ Ð½Ðµ ноÑÑ ÑоÑового ÑелеÑона, поÑомÑ
ÑÑо Ñ ÑовÑем не Ñ
оÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾ÑÑоÑнно
+ÑаÑÑказÑваÑÑ Ð¡ÑаÑÑÐµÐ¼Ñ ÐÑаÑÑ, где Ñ Ð½Ð°Ñ
ожÑÑÑ, о каждом меÑÑе, кÑда Ñ Ð¸Ð´Ñ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðменно поÑÑомÑ?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, именно поÑÑомÑ. ÐÑ, еÑÑÑ ÐµÑе одна
пÑиÑина. СегоднÑÑние ÑоÑовÑе
+ÑелеÑÐ¾Ð½Ñ — ÑÑо моÑнÑе компÑÑÑеÑÑ, и Ñ
ними невозможно ÑабоÑаÑÑ
+без неÑвободнÑÑ
пÑогÑамм.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Я дÑмал, ÑÑо ÑÑо Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð³Ð»Ð°Ð²Ð½Ð°Ñ
пÑиÑина.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа Ñамом деле Ñакой ÑелеÑон еÑÑÑ, Ñ
оÑÑ
его болÑÑе не вÑпÑÑкаÑÑ, он ÑабоÑал
+не Ñак Ñж Ñ
оÑоÑо, он бÑл пÑобнÑй. Так ÑÑо
ÑÑо дÑÑÐ³Ð°Ñ Ð¿Ñоблема, но ее не
+бÑло, ÑÑой пÑÐ¾Ð±Ð»ÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð½Ðµ бÑло, когда
поÑвилиÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑвÑе ÑоÑовÑе ÑелеÑонÑ, лÑди
+на ниÑ
не ÑÑÑанавливали пÑогÑаммÑ, ÑÑо
бÑли пÑоÑÑо законÑеннÑе ÑÑÑÑойÑÑва,
+но Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ñ
вÑегда ÑÑоÑла пÑоблема,
ÑвÑÐ·Ð°Ð½Ð½Ð°Ñ Ñ Ñем, ÑÑо они поÑÑоÑнно
+говоÑÑÑ, где Ð²Ñ Ð½Ð°Ñ
одиÑеÑÑ, и Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑÑо не Ñ
оÑÑ ÑÑаÑÑвоваÑÑ Ð² подобной
+ÑиÑÑеме, Ñ Ð´ÑмаÑ, ÑÑо лÑдÑм не ÑледÑеÑ
ÑÑого делаÑÑ. Ðне бÑло Ð±Ñ Ð¾ÑенÑ
+Ñдобно, еÑли Ð±Ñ Ñ Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ Ð±Ñл ÑоÑовÑй ÑелеÑон,
Ñ Ð½Ðµ из ÑеÑ
лÑдей, кÑо говоÑиÑ:
+“Ðне непÑиÑÑен ÑÐ¾Ñ ÑакÑ, ÑÑо мне могÑÑ
позвониÑÑ”,— оÑенÑ
+Ñдобно, когда мне могÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð·Ð²Ð¾Ð½Ð¸ÑÑ, но Ñ Ð½Ðµ
ÑобиÑаÑÑÑ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÑÑ ÑÑо Ñаким
+ÑпоÑобом.</dd>
+
+<dt>[15:33]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐнÑеÑеÑно, ÑÑо ваÑа боÑÑба за ÑвободÑ
пÑогÑамм и пÑÐ¾Ð±Ð»ÐµÐ¼Ñ ÑвободÑ, коÑоÑÑе
+Ð²Ñ Ð¾Ð¿Ð¸ÑÑваеÑе, пеÑеÑекаÑÑÑÑ. ÐÑо наÑалоÑÑ
Ñ Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¾ и Ñого же —
+или неÑ?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, ÑÑо наÑалоÑÑ Ð½Ðµ Ñ Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¾ и Ñого же.
ÐвадÑаÑÑ ÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð»ÐµÑ Ð½Ð°Ð·Ð°Ð´ повÑемеÑÑнаÑ
+ÑиÑÑÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ Ñлежка не бÑла болÑÑой
пÑоблемой.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðо ÑÑо делали вÑе Ñе же лÑди, лÑди,
коÑоÑÑÑ
Ð²Ñ Ð¾Ð±Ð¾Ð·Ð½Ð°Ñили как ÑеÑ
, кого
+вÑ...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, на Ñамом деле ÑÑо не Ñе же лÑди.
ÐеÑвободнÑе пÑогÑÐ°Ð¼Ð¼Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ болÑÑей ÑаÑÑи
+конÑÑолиÑÑеÑÑÑ ÑазлиÑнÑми ÑаÑÑнÑми
ÑÑÑÑкÑÑÑами, коÑоÑÑе ÑÑи пÑогÑаммÑ
+ÑазÑабаÑÑваÑÑ, Ñкажем, Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, Google,
Amazon —
+вÑе они ÑаÑпÑоÑÑÑанÑÑÑ Ð½ÐµÑвободнÑе
пÑогÑаммÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðне показалоÑÑ, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ Ð²ÑеÑ
иÑ
оÑноÑиÑе к
пÑоÑвлениÑм кÑайноÑÑей
+капиÑализма.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑоÑÑ Ð¿ÑоÑениÑ, когда Ñ Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑÑ Ð¾
кÑайноÑÑÑÑ
капиÑализма, Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ÑазÑмеваÑ
+опÑеделеннÑÑ ÑилоÑоÑиÑ, ÑоглаÑно коÑоÑой
вÑе должно ÑпÑавлÑÑÑÑÑ ÑÑнком, вÑе
+должно пÑодаваÑÑÑÑ, а деловÑм кÑÑгам надо
позволиÑÑ Ð³Ð¾ÑподÑÑвоваÑÑ Ð²
+полиÑике и полÑÑаÑÑ Ð½ÑжнÑе им законÑ. ÐÑо
ÑилÑно оÑлиÑаеÑÑÑ Ð¾Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑÑого
+капиÑализма, коÑоÑÑй ознаÑаеÑ, ÑÑо в ÑамкаÑ
обÑеÑÑва, коÑоÑое Ð¼Ñ Ð¾Ð±Ñазовали,
+ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð·Ð°ÑиÑаÑÑ Ð¿Ñава лÑдей и Ñак далее,
еÑÑÑ Ð¼Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¾Ðµ, ÑÑо лÑди Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ñ Ð±ÑÑÑ
+волÑÐ½Ñ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÑÑ Ð¸ ÑоздаваÑÑ Ð´Ð»Ñ ÑÑого
пÑедпÑиÑÑиÑ, как им заблагоÑаÑÑÑдиÑÑÑ.
+Ðменно из-за ÑÑой ÑазниÑÑ Ð½ÑнеÑнÑÑ ÑоÑма
капиÑализма вÑÑ
Ð¾Ð´Ð¸Ñ Ð¸Ð· ÑÐ·Ð´Ñ Ð¸ мÑ
+наблÑдаем договоÑÑ Ð¾ Ñвободной
ÑкÑплÑаÑаÑии, коÑоÑÑе по ÑÑÑи подÑÑваÑÑ
+демокÑаÑÐ¸Ñ Ð¸ обÑаÑаÑÑ ÐµÐµ в ÑалÑÑивкÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ЧÑо Ð²Ñ Ð¸Ð¼ÐµÐµÑе в видÑ?</dd>
+
+<dt>[17:24]<br />
+РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, Ñак назÑваемÑе договоÑÑ Ð¾ Ñвободной
ÑоÑговле, Ñ Ð½Ðµ лÑÐ±Ð»Ñ Ð¸Ñ
Ñак
+назÑваÑÑ, иÑ
ÑоÑÑавлÑÑÑ Ñак, ÑÑобÑ
пеÑемеÑÑиÑÑ Ð²Ð»Ð°ÑÑÑ Ð¾Ñ Ð³Ð¾ÑÑдаÑÑÑва к
+компаниÑм. ÐÑе они делаÑÑ ÑÑо одинаково:
они позволÑÑÑ ÐºÐ¾Ð¼Ð¿Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñм ÑгÑожаÑÑ,
+ÑÑо они пеÑеедÑÑ Ð² дÑÑгÑÑ ÑÑÑÐ°Ð½Ñ Ð¸Ð»Ð¸ бÑдÑÑ
Ñам ÑабоÑаÑÑ; Ñак ÑÑо каждÑй Ñаз,
+когда наÑод ÑÑебÑеÑ, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð³Ð¾ÑÑдаÑÑÑво
заÑиÑало окÑÑжаÑÑÑÑ ÑÑедÑ, здоÑовÑе
+лÑдей, ÑÑÐ¾Ð²ÐµÐ½Ñ Ð¶Ð¸Ð·Ð½Ð¸ или ÑÑо-нибÑÐ´Ñ ÐµÑе
более важное, Ñем пÑоÑÑо кÑо и ÑÑо
+бÑÐ´ÐµÑ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÑпаÑÑ, компании могÑÑ Ð·Ð°ÑвиÑÑ:
“ÐÑ Ð¿ÑоÑив ÑÑого, а еÑли вÑ
+ÑÑо ÑделаеÑе, Ð¼Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑÑо пеÑеедем в дÑÑгое
меÑÑо”,— и ÑепеÑÑ Ñ
+полиÑиков еÑÑÑ ÑÑдеÑÐ½Ð°Ñ Ð¾ÑговоÑка, ÑÑобÑ
не делаÑÑ ÑÑого.
+ÐонеÑно, в пеÑвÑÑ Ð¾ÑеÑÐµÐ´Ñ Ð¸Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð¾ они
пÑинимали ÑеÑение пÑиÑоединиÑÑÑÑ Ðº
+ÑÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ Ð´Ð¾Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑÑ, им не Ñледовало ÑÑого
делаÑÑ. РпоÑом, многие из ÑÑиÑ
+договоÑов заÑ
одÑÑ Ð´Ð°Ð»ÑÑе ÑÑого, они ÑвнÑм
обÑазом оÑÑиÑаÑÑ Ð´ÐµÐ¼Ð¾ÐºÑаÑиÑ. Так
+воÑ, в СШРбÑл закон, по коÑоÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ Ð½ÐµÐ»ÑзÑ
бÑло ÑоÑговаÑÑ ÑÑнÑом —
+Ð²Ñ Ð½Ðµ могли ÑоÑговаÑÑ ÑÑнÑом, еÑли он бÑл
вÑловлен ÑпоÑобом, пÑедÑÑавлÑÑÑим
+опаÑноÑÑÑ Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð´ÐµÐ»ÑÑинов. Так воÑ, ÑÑоÑ
закон пÑиÑлоÑÑ Ð·Ð°ÑеÑкнÑÑÑ Ð¸Ð·-за
+ÐÑемиÑной ÑоÑговой оÑганизаÑии, и ÑÑо
ÑолÑко один пÑимеÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐоÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо ÑÑо ÑаÑÑенивалоÑÑ ÐºÐ°Ðº
пÑепÑÑÑÑвие ÑоÑговле.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðменно. Ðалее, NAFTA, Ð´Ð¾Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾Ñ Ð¼ÐµÐ¶Ð´Ñ Ð¡Ð¨Ð,
Ðанадой и ÐекÑикой, позволÑеÑ
+компаниÑм подаÑÑ Ð² ÑÑд на гоÑÑдаÑÑÑво,
еÑли они ÑÑиÑаÑÑ, ÑÑо какой-Ñо закон
+ÑÐ½Ð¸Ð¶Ð°ÐµÑ Ð¸Ñ
пÑибÑли; ÑакÑиÑеÑки договоÑ
ÑÑвеÑждаеÑ, ÑÑо вÑÑÑÐ°Ñ ÑенноÑÑÑ Ð²
+обÑеÑÑве — колиÑеÑÑво денег, коÑоÑÑе
Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑÑиÑÑ ÐºÐ¾Ð¼Ð¿Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ, а
+еÑли ÑÑо-Ñо ÑÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ Ð¼ÐµÑаеÑ, Ñо Ð¼Ñ Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ñ
в
долгÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐонеÑно, вÑе Ð¼Ñ Ð·Ð´ÐµÑÑ Ð·Ð° ÑвободÑ
ÑоÑговли, РиÑаÑд, поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо Ð¼Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»Ð°Ð³Ð°ÐµÐ¼ÑÑ
+на нее...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, Ñ Ð½Ðµ за ÑÐ²Ð¾Ð±Ð¾Ð´Ñ ÑоÑговли ÑвеÑÑ
опÑеделеннÑÑ
пÑеделов. Те, кÑо за ÑвободÑ
+ÑоÑговли, говоÑÑÑ, ÑÑо Ð¾Ñ ÑÑого вÑе
пÑоÑвеÑаÑÑ, и до какого-Ñо моменÑа ÑÑо
+веÑно, и ÑÑо ÑÐ¾Ñ Ð¼Ð¾Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ, за коÑоÑÑм ÑÑо
наÑÐ¸Ð½Ð°ÐµÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´Ð°Ð²Ð»ÑÑÑ Ð´ÐµÐ¼Ð¾ÐºÑаÑиÑ. Ðо
+ÑмÑÑл ÑÑиÑ
договоÑов ÑоÑÑÐ¾Ð¸Ñ Ñовно в Ñом,
ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð´Ð¾Ð²ÐµÑÑи ÑÐ²Ð¾Ð±Ð¾Ð´Ñ ÑоÑговли
+ÑÑда, где она и подавлÑÐµÑ Ð´ÐµÐ¼Ð¾ÐºÑаÑиÑ. РвÑ
видиÑе, как мозговÑе ÑенÑÑÑ
+деловÑÑ
кÑÑгов ÑообÑаÑÑ, ÑÑо, по иÑ
ожиданиÑм, за неÑколÑко деÑÑÑилеÑий
+конÑÑÐ¾Ð»Ñ Ð³Ð¾ÑÑдаÑÑÑв в миÑе ÑилÑно
оÑлабееÑ, а конÑÑÐ¾Ð»Ñ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð¾Ð²ÑÑ
кÑÑгов
+окÑепнеÑ. Ðо ÑÑÑеÑÑÐ²Ñ Ð¾Ð½Ð¸ пÑедÑказÑваÑÑ
как Ñаз Ñо, к ÑÐµÐ¼Ñ ÑÑи договоÑÑ Ð¸Ð´ÑÑ
+ÑÑÑоевÑм Ñагом.</dd>
+
+<dt>[20:08]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðз Ñого, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ ÐµÑе не делаеÑе: Ð²Ñ Ð½Ðµ
водиÑе маÑинÑ, ÑÑо веÑно?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐеÑ, ÑÑо не Ñак. У Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ Ð½ÐµÑ Ð¼Ð°ÑинÑ.
ÐодиÑелÑÑкое ÑдоÑÑовеÑение Ñ Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ ÐµÑÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐнаÑиÑ, кÑоме пÑоÑего, Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð½ÐµÑ
маÑинÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ Ð´Ð°, Ð´Ð»Ñ Ñкономии. Я Ð¶Ð¸Ð²Ñ Ð² гоÑоде.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑо не пÑинÑипиалÑно.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, Ñ Ð½Ðµ дÑмаÑ, ÑÑо владеÑÑ Ð°Ð²Ñомобилем
дÑÑно; бÑло Ð±Ñ Ñ
оÑоÑо, еÑли Ð±Ñ Ð²Ñе
+Ð¼Ñ Ð½ÐµÐ¼Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¾ менÑÑе на ниÑ
ездили.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Я дÑмал, ÑÑо из-за неÑвободнÑÑ
пÑогÑамм в
авÑомобилÑÑ
.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÐ¾Ñ ÑÑо инÑеÑеÑнÑй вопÑоÑ. У Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ ÐµÑÑÑ
ÑеÑ
ника, Ñ Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ ÐµÑÑÑ Ð¼Ð¸ÐºÑоволноваÑ
+пеÑÑ, в коÑоÑой могли Ð±Ñ Ð±ÑÑÑ Ð½ÐµÑвободнÑе
пÑогÑаммÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>РеÑе Ð²Ñ Ð»ÐµÑаеÑе на ÑамолеÑаÑ
.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа. ÐÑ, Ñ
оÑÑ ÑÑо не мои ÑамолеÑÑ. Я не
бойкоÑиÑÑÑ Ð²ÑеÑ
, кÑо полÑзÑеÑÑÑ
+неÑвободнÑми пÑогÑаммами. ÐÑли компаниÑ
пÑименÑÐµÑ Ð½ÐµÑвободнÑе пÑогÑаммÑ, Ñ
+говоÑÑ, ÑÑо ÑÑо плоÑ
о Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ñ
, но Ñ Ð½Ðµ
ÑобиÑаÑÑÑ Ð¸Ñ
наказÑваÑÑ Ð¸Ð»Ð¸
+бойкоÑиÑоваÑÑ, Ñ ÑолÑко попÑÑаÑÑÑ
обÑÑÑниÑÑ Ð¸Ð¼, поÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð¾Ð½Ð¸ заÑлÑживаÑÑ
+конÑÑÐ¾Ð»Ñ Ð½Ð°Ð´ Ñвоей вÑÑиÑлиÑелÑной ÑеÑ
никой вмеÑÑо Ñого, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð·Ð²Ð¾Ð»ÑÑÑ
+конÑÑолиÑоваÑÑ ÐµÐµ комÑ-Ñо дÑÑгомÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>[21:05]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ЧÑо Ð²Ñ ÑобиÑаеÑеÑÑ ÑаÑÑказаÑÑ Ð½Ð°
ÐонÑеÑенÑии ÐиблиоÑеÑно-инÑоÑмаÑионной
+аÑÑоÑиаÑии на ÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð°Ð²ÑоÑÑкиÑ
пÑав и
ÑообÑеÑÑва?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, Ñ ÑобиÑаÑÑÑ Ð¾Ð±ÑÑÑниÑÑ, ÑÑо нÑнеÑнее
авÑоÑÑкое пÑаво неÑпÑаведливо,
+поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо оно запÑеÑÐ°ÐµÑ Ð¾Ð±Ð¼ÐµÐ½, а обмен
ÑовеÑÑенно необÑ
одим. ÐÑди должнÑ
+бÑÑÑ Ð²Ð¾Ð»ÑÐ½Ñ Ð¾Ð±Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ð²Ð°ÑÑÑÑ, Ñак и в
новозеландÑком законе об авÑоÑÑком пÑаве,
+пÑинÑÑом около года назад, и ÑолÑко одна из
неÑколÑкиÑ
его неÑпÑаведливоÑÑей
+бÑла вÑеменно оÑменена, ÑÑо бÑл Ñаг в
невеÑном напÑавлении, но ÑÑо бÑло Ñже
+ÑлиÑком болÑÑое огÑаниÑение, лÑди должнÑ
бÑÑÑ Ð²Ð¾Ð»ÑÐ½Ñ Ð¾Ð±Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ð²Ð°ÑÑÑÑ Ð±ÐµÐ·
+извлеÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿ÑибÑли ÑоÑнÑми копиÑми лÑбого
обнаÑодованного пÑоизведениÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐозволÑÑе... как же Ñак? Я пиÑÑ ÐºÐ½Ð¸Ð³Ñ, Ñ
ÑÑаÑÑ, понимаеÑе ли, пÑÑÑ Ð»ÐµÑ Ñвоей
+жизни на Ñо, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ ÐµÐµ напиÑаÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑкÑда Ñ Ð·Ð½Ð°Ñ, можеÑ, Ð²Ñ ÐµÐµ напиÑали за
меÑÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>РможеÑ, Ñ Ð½Ðµ напиÑал ее за меÑÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðело в Ñом, ÑÑо ÑÑо Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð²ÑбоÑ. Ðниги
пиÑали и до авÑоÑÑкого пÑава. Я дÑмаÑ,
+ÑÑо Ð²Ñ ÑмоÑÑиÑе на ÑÑо задом напеÑед. ÐÑ
ÑеÑаеÑе поÑÑаÑиÑÑ Ð²ÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð½Ð° книгÑ, и
+Ð³Ð»Ð°Ð²Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð¿ÑиÑина, по коÑоÑой болÑÑинÑÑво
пиÑаÑелей ÑÑаÑÑÑ Ð²ÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð½Ð° книги,
+заклÑÑаеÑÑÑ Ð² Ñом, ÑÑо им еÑÑÑ ÑÑо ÑказаÑÑ,
они Ñ
оÑÑÑ Ð·Ð°Ð¿Ð¸ÑаÑÑ ÑÑо и
+надеÑÑÑÑ, ÑÑо лÑди бÑдÑÑ ÑÑо ÑениÑÑ. ТолÑко
немногие полÑÑаÑÑ ÑÑолÑко денег,
+ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ ÑÑо наÑало ÑазлагаÑÑ Ð¸Ñ
дÑÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðе Ñо ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑÑинÑÑво обÑеÑÑв ÑÑо Ñ
оÑело, и они не делаÑÑ ÑÑо жÑÑко
+ÑÑÑекÑивно, но до некоÑоÑой ÑÑепени они
пÑÑаÑÑÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¾ÑÑÑÑÑ Ð¿Ð¸ÑаÑелÑÑкÑÑ
+деÑÑелÑноÑÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ð, Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»Ð½Ð¾ÑÑÑÑ Ð·Ð° Ñо, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¾ÑÑÑÑÑ
пиÑаÑелÑÑкÑÑ Ð´ÐµÑÑелÑноÑÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Так как же Ð²Ñ Ð±ÑдеÑе ее пооÑÑÑÑÑ?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, пÑежде вÑего бÑдем помниÑÑ, ÑÑо Ñ Ð½Ðµ
говоÑÑ Ð¾Ð± ÑпÑазднении авÑоÑÑкиÑ
+пÑав на пÑÐ¾Ð¸Ð·Ð²ÐµÐ´ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¸ÑкÑÑÑÑва, Ñ Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑÑ,
ÑÑо лÑди Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ñ Ð±ÑÑÑ Ð²Ð¾Ð»ÑнÑ
+обмениваÑÑÑÑ Ð¸Ð¼Ð¸ без извлеÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿ÑибÑли.
ÐоммеÑÑеÑкое иÑполÑзование
+ÑегÑлиÑовалоÑÑ Ð±Ñ Ð°Ð²ÑоÑÑким пÑавом, как и
ÑейÑаÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑли Ñ Ð¿ÐµÑепеÑаÑÐ°Ñ ÐºÐ½Ð¸Ð³Ñ Ñеликом и
Ñаздам ее, а они Ñоже бÑдÑÑ ÐµÐµ ÑаздаваÑÑ,
+ÑаздаваÑÑ, ÑаздаваÑÑ, Ñо как авÑÐ¾Ñ Ñ
напÑÐ¾Ð´Ð°Ñ Ð½ÐµÐ¼Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¾.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÐ¾Ð¶ÐµÑ Ð±ÑÑÑ, а можеÑ, и неÑ. Я видел, как
лÑди заÑвлÑли, ÑÑо, ÑкоÑее вÑего,
+Ð¾Ñ ÑÑого поÑÑÑадаÑÑ ÑолÑко пÑодажи ÑамÑÑ
пÑибÑлÑнÑÑ
изданий, поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо, не
+забÑвайÑе, ÑÑо еÑли Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð½Ðµ беÑÑÑ Ð½Ð°ÑаÑÑ
ваÑ,
а лÑди пеÑепиÑÑваÑÑ ÐºÐ¾Ð¿Ð¸Ð¸, Ñо
+они ÑакÑиÑеÑки пÑиобÑеÑаÑÑ Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð²Ð°Ñ
поÑиÑаÑелей. ÐÑли Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð½Ðµ вÑпÑÑкаÑÑ
+болÑÑими ÑиÑажами, Ñо главнÑм обÑазом Ñ
коммеÑÑеÑкой ÑоÑки зÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð²Ð°Ð¼ нÑжна
+извеÑÑноÑÑÑ, а ÑÑо ÑпоÑоб полÑÑиÑÑ
извеÑÑноÑÑÑ, беÑплаÑно, кÑÑаÑи ÑказаÑÑ, и
+не пеÑÐµÐ´Ð°Ð²Ð°Ñ ÑпÑавление в ÑÑки компании,
коÑоÑÐ°Ñ Ð²Ð¾ вÑÑком ÑлÑÑае забÑала бÑ
+оÑновнÑÑ ÑаÑÑÑ Ð¿ÑибÑли.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐоÑÑойÑе-ка, но Ð²ÐµÐ´Ñ Ð¸Ð·Ð²ÐµÑÑноÑÑÑ Ð°Ð²ÑоÑÑ
нÑжна ÑолÑко Ð´Ð»Ñ Ñого, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´Ð½ÑÑÑ
+пÑодажи ÑвоиÑ
бÑдÑÑей книг.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐеÑ, неÑ, и неÑ. ТолÑко авÑоÑ, коÑоÑÑй
нÑавÑÑвенно ÑазложилÑÑ Ð¸ болÑÑе не
+Ð¶Ð°Ð¶Ð´ÐµÑ Ñого, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ ÐµÐ³Ð¾ ÑиÑали и Ñенили, Ñ
ÑÑого Ð¶ÐµÐ»Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð¸ наÑинаеÑ, и ÑолÑко
+оÑенÑ-оÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ð½ÐµÐ¼Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¸Ðµ ÑÑановÑÑÑÑ Ð±Ð¾Ð³Ð°ÑÑми,
да и Ñе немногие, коÑоÑÑе
+ÑÑановÑÑÑÑ Ð±Ð¾Ð³Ð°ÑÑми, когда лÑдÑм плаÑÑÑ Ð·Ð°
Ñо, ÑÑо они пеÑвонаÑалÑно делали
+из ÑдоволÑÑÑÐ²Ð¸Ñ Ð¸Ð»Ð¸ внÑÑÑеннего
побÑждениÑ, они заÑаÑÑÑÑ Ð½Ð°ÑинаÑÑ Ñ
оÑеÑÑ
+полÑÑиÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑÑе денег и Ñже не Ñак Ñ
оÑÑÑ
занимаÑÑÑÑ Ñем, ÑÑо им когда-Ñо
+нÑавилоÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Так ÑÑо еÑли авÑоÑÑ Ñ
оÑÑÑ ÐºÐ°Ðº Ñаз Ñого,
ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¸Ñ
ÑиÑали и Ñенили...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, Ñ ÑÑого они наÑинаÑÑ. ÐекоÑоÑÑе из ÑеÑ
, кÑо ÑÑановиÑÑÑ Ð±Ð¾Ð³Ð°ÑÑм, Ñ
оÑÑÑ
+бÑÑÑ Ð±Ð¾Ð³Ð°ÑÑми.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, о ниÑ
можно забÑÑÑ, поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо вÑ
подÑазÑмеваеÑе, ÑÑо они как ÑледÑÑвие
+пиÑÑÑ Ð¿Ð»Ð¾Ñ
ие книги.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐеÑ, Ñ Ð½Ðµ говоÑÑ, ÑÑо вÑе они плоÑ
ие, Ñ Ð½Ðµ
Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°Ñ ÑакиÑ
пÑимиÑивнÑÑ
+обобÑений, Ñ Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑÑ, ÑÑо иÑ
ÑÑвÑÑва
иÑпоÑÑенÑ, ÑÑо не обÑзаÑелÑно знаÑиÑ,
+ÑÑо иÑ
книги плоÑ
и, некоÑоÑÑе мне нÑавÑÑÑÑ.
Ðело в Ñом, ÑÑо ÑÑо незаÑÑÑднÑй
+авÑоÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðо заÑÑÑдного авÑоÑа Ð²Ñ ÐºÐ°Ðº бÑдÑо
оÑÑждаеÑе на еÑе болÑÑÑÑ Ð½Ð¸ÑеÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа неÑ, Ð²Ñ Ð¾ÑибаеÑеÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑли они не могÑÑ Ð¿ÑодаÑÑ ÐºÐ½Ð¸Ð³Ñ...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ Ð¾ÑибаеÑеÑÑ, Ð²Ñ Ð¿ÑоводиÑе ÑаÑÑÑждение,
Ñ ÐºÐ¾ÑоÑÑм Ñе, кÑо Ð·Ð½Ð°ÐµÑ Ð¾Ð± ÑÑом
+болÑÑе, неÑоглаÑнÑ. ÐоÑи ÐокÑоÑоÑ, коÑоÑÑй
доÑÑиг болÑÑой попÑлÑÑноÑÑи,
+вÑкладÑÐ²Ð°ÐµÑ Ð²Ñе Ñвои книги в ÑеÑи и даже не
дÑмаеÑ, ÑÑо его пÑодажи
+ÑнижаÑÑÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ð ÑÑо, лÑди вÑе же идÑÑ Ð² магазин и
покÑпаÑÑ ÑÑо на бÑмаге?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, покÑпаÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐеÑмоÑÑÑ Ð½Ð° Ñо, ÑÑо они могÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑедаваÑÑ
его ÐºÐ½Ð¸Ð³Ñ Ð¸Ð· ÑÑк в ÑÑки за пÑоÑÑо
+Ñак.</dd>
+
+<dt>[25:31]<br />
+РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐонимаеÑе, они вÑе Ñавно могÑÑ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÑÑ
ÑÑо Ñ ÑипогÑаÑÑкими книгами, поÑÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ Ð¸
+поÑвилиÑÑ ÑлекÑÑоннÑе книги. ÐлекÑÑоннÑе
книги ÑпÑоекÑиÑованÑ, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð½Ðµ
+позволиÑÑ Ð²Ð°Ð¼, Ñкажем, даÑÑ ÐºÐ½Ð¸Ð³Ñ Ð½Ð° вÑемÑ
ÑÐ²Ð¾ÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð·Ð½Ð°ÐºÐ¾Ð¼Ð¾Ð¼Ñ, ÑдаÑÑ ÐµÐµ в
+бÑкиниÑÑиÑеÑкий магазин или взÑÑÑ Ð²
абонеменÑе пÑблиÑной библиоÑеки. Ðни
+ÑпÑоекÑиÑованÑ, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑаÑиÑÑ Ð¿ÑблиÑнÑе
библиоÑеки в пÑедпÑиÑÑÐ¸Ñ ÑозниÑной
+ÑоÑговли. РделаÑÑ Ð¾Ð½Ð¸ ÑÑо поÑомÑ, ÑÑо они Ñ
оÑÑÑ ÑÑÑановиÑÑ Ð²ÑеленнÑÑ Ñ
+оплаÑой за каждÑй пÑоÑмоÑÑ. Ðни ÑледÑÑÑ
извÑаÑенной логике, по коÑоÑой Ñамое
+важное — ÑÑо Ñо, ÑколÑко лÑди плаÑÑÑ,
а Ñ ÐºÐ°Ð¶Ð´Ð¾Ð³Ð¾, кÑо ÑиÑаеÑ,
+еÑÑÑ Ð·Ð°Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶ÐµÐ½Ð½Ð¾ÑÑÑ, он должен денÑги, и его
нÑжно заÑÑавиÑÑ Ð¿Ð»Ð°ÑиÑÑ. Я
+дÑмаÑ, ÑÑо ÑÑо извÑаÑение, и Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑив ÑÑого,
поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо к Ñвободе обмена
+Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ñ Ð¾ÑноÑиÑÑÑÑ Ñ Ñважением.
+
+ÐÑ Ñ Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ ÐµÑÑÑ Ð´ÑÑгие пÑÐµÐ´Ð»Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾
ÑпоÑобам поддеÑжки деÑÑелей
+иÑкÑÑÑÑва. Рне забÑвайÑе, ÑÑо
ÑÑÑеÑÑвÑÑÑÐ°Ñ ÑиÑÑема поддеÑÐ¶Ð¸Ð²Ð°ÐµÑ Ð¿Ð¾
болÑÑей
+ÑаÑÑи коÑпоÑаÑии, Ñак ÑÑо она ÑабоÑаеÑ,
по-моемÑ, не оÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ñ
оÑоÑо. Ð ÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ Ð¶Ðµ
+она ÑилÑно обогаÑÐ°ÐµÑ Ð½ÐµÐ¼Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¸Ñ
авÑоÑов, и к
ним коÑпоÑаÑии оÑноÑÑÑÑÑ Ð²ÐµÑÑма
+поÑÑиÑелÑно, а оÑÑалÑнÑе полÑÑаÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾ ÑÑÑи
дÑÑÐºÑ Ð¾Ñ Ð±Ñблика. Ðои
+пÑÐµÐ´Ð»Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ — Ñ Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ Ð¸Ñ
два, а ÑÑеÑÑе
ÑоÑÑÐ¾Ð¸Ñ Ð² иÑ
+ÑоÑеÑании — одно пÑедложение
заклÑÑаеÑÑÑ Ð² Ñом, ÑÑобÑ
+поддеÑживаÑÑ Ð´ÐµÑÑелей иÑкÑÑÑÑва за ÑÑеÑ
налогов, ÑÑо Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑ Ð±ÑÑÑ Ð»Ð¸Ð±Ð¾ оÑобÑй
+налог на подклÑÑение к ÐнÑеÑнеÑÑ, либо
обÑие ÑондÑ, ÑÑи ÑÑÐ¼Ð¼Ñ Ð½Ðµ бÑли бÑ
+ÑÑезвÑÑайно велики по ÑÑÐ°Ð²Ð½ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ñ Ð´ÑÑгими
ÑÑаÑÑÑми ÑаÑÑ
ода гоÑÑдаÑÑÑва, а
+заÑем Ð²Ñ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð¸Ð»Ð¸ Ð±Ñ Ð´ÐµÐ½Ñги ÑÑеди деÑÑелей
иÑкÑÑÑÑва ÑоÑазмеÑно иÑ
+попÑлÑÑноÑÑи, но не в пÑÑмой пÑопоÑÑии,
поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо в ÑÑом ÑлÑÑае
+знаÑиÑелÑÐ½Ð°Ñ ÑаÑÑÑ ÑÑиÑ
денег ÑÑла Ð±Ñ Ð½Ð°
Ñо, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ ÑделаÑÑ ÐµÑе богаÑе
+неÑколÑкиÑ
ÑамÑÑ
попÑлÑÑнÑÑ
аÑÑиÑÑов, а
ÑÑо не ÑÑебÑеÑÑÑ; Ñ Ð¶Ðµ пÑедлагаÑ
+бÑаÑÑ ÐºÑбиÑеÑкий коÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð¿ÑлÑÑноÑÑи.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðак Ð²Ñ Ð¿ÑедлагаеÑе оÑениваÑÑ Ð¸Ñ
попÑлÑÑноÑÑÑ?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑо можно делаÑÑ Ð¾Ð¿ÑоÑом.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðаким опÑоÑом? Ðо ÐнÑеÑнеÑÑ?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðаким Ñгодно, еÑÑÑ Ð²ÑевозможнÑе опÑоÑÑ
обÑеÑÑвенного мнениÑ, вÑбоÑоÑнÑе,
+ÑмÑÑл в Ñом, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ Ð½Ðµ опÑаÑиваеÑе вÑеÑ
,
ÑÑаÑÑие ни Ð´Ð»Ñ ÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð¾ не
+обÑзаÑелÑно. Ðо Ð²Ñ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÐµÑе вÑбоÑÐºÑ Ð¸
полÑзÑеÑеÑÑ ÐµÑ Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¸Ð·Ð¼ÐµÑениÑ
+попÑлÑÑноÑÑи.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Я пÑоÑÑо обдÑмÑÐ²Ð°Ñ ÑÑÑ Ð¼ÑÑÐ»Ñ Ð¾
попÑлÑÑноÑÑи. ÐÑ Ð¾ÑождеÑÑвлÑеÑе
попÑлÑÑноÑÑÑ
+и заÑлÑги?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐеÑ, не оÑождеÑÑвлÑÑ, но Ñ Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑÑ, ÑÑо мÑ
не Ñ
оÑим, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð±ÑÑокÑаÑÑ ÑеÑали,
+кÑо полÑÑÐ¸Ñ ÑÑи ÑÑедÑÑва. Так ÑÑо ÑÑо один
ÑпоÑоб, делаÑÑ ÑÑо опÑоÑом, в
+конÑе конÑов, ÑÑÑеÑÑвÑÑÑÐ°Ñ ÑиÑÑема в
некоÑоÑой ÑÑепени оÑнована на
+попÑлÑÑноÑÑи. ÐозÑмиÑе кÑбиÑеÑкий коÑенÑ,
Ñак ÑÑо еÑли Рв ÑÑÑÑÑÑ Ñаз
+попÑлÑÑнее Ð, Ñо РполÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ð² деÑÑÑÑ Ñаз
болÑÑе денег, Ñем Ð, Ñак ÑÑо ÑÑо
+аналогиÑно пÑогÑеÑÑÐ¸Ð²Ð½Ð¾Ð¼Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´Ð¾Ñ
одномÑ
налогÑ. Так ÑÑо в ÑÑом ÑлÑÑае еÑли вÑ
+ÑÑезвÑÑайно попÑлÑÑнÑ, Ñо полÑÑаеÑе вÑ
болÑÑе, но не до ÑмопомÑаÑениÑ, и
+оÑÐ½Ð¾Ð²Ð½Ð°Ñ ÑаÑÑÑ Ð´ÐµÐ½ÐµÐ³ Ð¸Ð´ÐµÑ Ð½Ð° поддеÑжкÑ
болÑÑого ÑиÑла аÑÑиÑÑов ÑÑедней
+попÑлÑÑноÑÑи.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>СкажиÑе мне еÑе Ñаз, оÑкÑда поÑÑÑпаÑÑ
денÑги?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðз налогов. Ðни поÑÑÑпаÑÑ Ð¾Ñ Ð²ÑеÑ
наÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐбÑие налоги.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑо могÑÑ Ð±ÑÑÑ Ð¾Ð±Ñие налоги или оÑобÑй
налог. ÐÐ¾Ð´Ð¾Ð¹Ð´ÐµÑ Ð¸ Ñо, и дÑÑгое.</dd>
+
+<dt>[28:42]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐоÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑÑо не пÑоÑиÑÑ Ð»Ñдей, еÑли вÑ
оÑновÑваеÑеÑÑ Ð½Ð° попÑлÑÑноÑÑи?
+ÐоÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑÑо не пÑоÑиÑÑ Ð»Ñдей пÑиÑÑлаÑÑ
денÑги?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑо мое вÑоÑое пÑедложение. ÐÑли Ð±Ñ Ð²
каждом пÑоигÑÑваÑеле бÑла кнопка,
+ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¾ÑпÑавиÑÑ Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð»Ð°Ñ, Ñ Ð´ÑмаÑ, лÑди ÑаÑÑо
ÑÑали Ð±Ñ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÑÑ ÑÑо, в конÑе
+конÑов, Ð³Ð»Ð°Ð²Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð¿ÑиÑина, по коÑоÑой Ð¼Ñ Ð½Ðµ
делаем ÑÑого, заклÑÑаеÑÑÑ Ð² Ñом,
+ÑÑо ÑÑо ÑлиÑком Ñ
лопоÑно. Ðело не в Ñом, ÑÑо
мне жалко доллаÑа, Ñ ÑаÑÑо бÑл
+Ð±Ñ Ñад поÑлаÑÑ Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð»Ð°Ñ ÐºÐ°ÐºÐ¸Ð¼-Ñо аÑÑиÑÑам, но
как ÑÑо ÑделаÑÑ? Ðне нÑжна
+кÑедиÑÐ½Ð°Ñ ÐºÐ°ÑÑа, нÑжно ÑдоÑÑовеÑиÑÑ ÑвоÑ
лиÑноÑÑÑ, нÑжно найÑи, кÑда им ÑÑо
+пеÑеводиÑÑ, а ÑÑо ÑлиÑком болÑÑÐ°Ñ Ð²Ð¾Ð·Ð½Ñ. Ð
Ð²Ð¾Ñ ÑÑа кнопка, коÑоÑÐ°Ñ ÑеализÑеÑ
+анонимнÑй, как Ñ Ð½Ð°Ð´ÐµÑÑÑ, пеÑевод,
ÑÑÑÑанила Ð±Ñ Ð²Ñе ÑÑи Ñ
лопоÑÑ, Ñ ÑÑим не
+бÑло Ð±Ñ Ð½Ð¸ÐºÐ°ÐºÐ¸Ñ
мÑÑений, а Ñогда, Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»Ð°Ð³Ð°Ñ,
ÑÑо ÑÑали Ð±Ñ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÑÑ Ð¼Ð½Ð¾Ð³Ð¸Ðµ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ð ÑÑо, еÑли полноÑÑÑÑ Ð¸Ð·Ð±Ð°Ð²Ð¸ÑÑÑÑ Ð¾Ñ
налогов и даÑÑ Ð½Ð°Ð¼ возможноÑÑÑ
+напÑавлÑÑÑ...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Я не пÑоÑив налогов.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Я не говоÑÑ, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑив, но Ñ
ÑпÑаÑиваÑ, поÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð±Ñ Ð½ÐµÑ?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐоÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо нам нÑжно гаÑанÑиÑоваÑÑ, ÑÑо
богаÑÑе бÑдÑÑ Ð¿Ð»Ð°ÑиÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾
+ÑпÑаведливоÑÑи, Ñо еÑÑÑ Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑÑий пÑоÑенÑ,
Ñем беднÑе, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¾Ð±ÑеÑÑво не
+ÑÑоÑло на меÑÑе. Ðам нÑжно обеÑпеÑенное
гоÑÑдаÑÑÑво, по кÑайней меÑе пÑи
+нÑнеÑнем ÑÑовне ÑеÑ
ники и ÑоÑиалÑном
ÑÑÑÑойÑÑве; нам нÑжно обеÑпеÑенное
+гоÑÑдаÑÑÑво, и богаÑÑе Ñоже Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ñ Ð´Ð°Ð²Ð°ÑÑ
ÑÑедÑÑва на ÑÑо.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Разве не ÑÑÑеÑÑвенно, ÑÑо ваÑе
ÑоÑÑÑзание в попÑлÑÑноÑÑи деÑÑелей
иÑкÑÑÑÑва
+Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑ Ð´Ð°ÑÑ Ð±Ð¾Ð³Ð°ÑÑм полноÑÑÑÑ ÑйÑи оÑ
плаÑежей?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, Ñ Ð½Ðµ ÑвеÑен, ÑÑо ÑÑо важно.
ÐоддеÑживаÑÑ Ð´ÐµÑÑелей иÑкÑÑÑÑва
желаÑелÑно,
+но ÑÑо не вопÑÐ¾Ñ Ð¶Ð¸Ð·Ð½Ð¸ и ÑмеÑÑи в Ñом
ÑмÑÑле, в каком Ñаким вопÑоÑом
+ÑвлÑеÑÑÑ Ð¿ÑедоÑÑавление беднÑм пиÑи,
кÑова и медиÑинÑкой помоÑи незавиÑимо
+Ð¾Ñ Ñого, ÑвлÑÑÑÑÑ Ð¾Ð½Ð¸ деÑÑелÑми иÑкÑÑÑÑва
или неÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Я не знаÑ, Ñ Ð´ÑмаÑ, еÑли Ð²Ñ Ð²Ð·Ð³Ð»ÑнеÑе на
обÑеÑÑво, Ñо оно ÑоÑÑÐ¾Ð¸Ñ Ð¸Ð·
+вÑевозможнÑÑ
обÑекÑов, коÑоÑÑе в здоÑовом
обÑеÑÑве Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ñ Ð±ÑÑÑ ÑвÑÐ·Ð°Ð½Ñ Ð´ÑÑг
+Ñ Ð´ÑÑгом.</dd>
+
+<dt>[30:47]<br />
+РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, но Ñ Ð½Ðµ Ñ
оÑÑ Ð´Ð°Ð²Ð°ÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾ Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ð¾Ð¼Ñ ÑеÑениÑ
на каждÑÑ Ð¿ÑÐ¾Ð±Ð»ÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð² обÑеÑÑве. Я
+не ÑÑоÑонник оÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ð¿ÑимиÑивной
обÑеÑÑвенной ÑилоÑоÑии, и Ñ Ð½Ð°Ð´ÐµÑÑÑ, ÑÑо ÑÑо
+ÑÑно. Такие лÑди еÑÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, конеÑно, Ñакие еÑÑÑ. ÐеÑ-неÑ, мне и в
Ð³Ð¾Ð»Ð¾Ð²Ñ Ð½Ðµ могло Ð±Ñ Ð¿ÑийÑи обвиниÑÑ
+Ð²Ð°Ñ Ð² Ñом, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ Ð¿ÑедлагаеÑе пÑимиÑивнÑÑ
обÑеÑÑвеннÑÑ ÑилоÑоÑиÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd><p>ÐÑÑÑ Ð»Ñди, коÑоÑÑе пÑоÑив вÑÑкого
авÑоÑÑкого пÑава; они поÑиÑаÑÑ Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ Ð·Ð° Ñо,
+ÑÑо Ñ Ð·Ð°Ñ
Ð¾Ð¶Ñ Ð½ÐµÐ´Ð¾ÑÑаÑоÑно далеко, но Ð²ÐµÐ´Ñ Ñ
говоÑÑ, ÑÑо ÑабоÑÑ, коÑоÑÑе
+пÑименÑÑÑÑÑ Ð´Ð»Ñ ÑеÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿ÑакÑиÑеÑкиÑ
задаÑ,— ÑÑи ÑабоÑÑ Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ñ Ð±ÑÑÑ
+ÑÐ²Ð¾Ð±Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ñ Ð² ÑмÑÑле ÑеÑÑÑеÑ
Ñвобод,
опÑеделÑÑÑиÑ
ÑвободнÑе пÑогÑаммÑ. У ваÑ
+должна бÑÑÑ Ñвобода пеÑеопÑбликовÑваÑÑ Ð¸Ñ
, изменÑÑÑ Ð¸Ñ
, пÑбликоваÑÑ Ñвои
+измененнÑе веÑÑии, поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо Ð²ÐµÐ´Ñ ÑÑо
нÑжно в жизни полÑзоваÑелÑм ÑÑиÑ
+ÑабоÑ. Ðо, неÑомненно, еÑÑÑ Ð¼Ð½Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑÑво
ÑабоÑ, коÑоÑÑе Ð´Ð»Ñ ÑеÑениÑ
+пÑакÑиÑеÑкиÑ
Ð·Ð°Ð´Ð°Ñ Ð½Ðµ пÑименÑÑÑÑÑ, иÑ
обÑеÑÑвенное знаÑение заклÑÑаеÑÑÑ Ð²
+дÑÑгом, ÑÑо не ÑÑнкÑионалÑно-пÑакÑиÑеÑкие
ÑабоÑÑ.</p>
+<p>ÐозÑмем иÑкÑÑÑÑво: знаÑение Ñ
ÑдожеÑÑвенного пÑÐ¾Ð¸Ð·Ð²ÐµÐ´ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÑоÑÑÐ¾Ð¸Ñ Ð² Ñом
+влиÑнии, коÑоÑое оно оказÑÐ²Ð°ÐµÑ Ð½Ð° ваÑÑ
мÑÑлÑ, а не в Ñом, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑе
+ÑмÑдÑиÑÑÑÑ Ð²ÑполниÑÑ Ñ ÐµÐ³Ð¾ помоÑÑÑ ÐºÐ°ÐºÑÑ
Ð±Ñ Ñо ни бÑло пÑакÑиÑеÑкÑÑ
+ÑабоÑÑ. РпоÑом, еÑÑÑ Ð¿ÑоизведениÑ,
вÑÑажаÑÑие Ð¼Ð½ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð»Ñдей, иÑ
мÑÑли и
+воÑпоминаниÑ, Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ñ
Ñоже дÑÑгое
обÑеÑÑвенное знаÑение, и Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð½Ð¸Ñ
Ñ Ð´Ð°Ñ
+дÑÑгие ÑекомендаÑии. Ðо Ñвобода
некоммеÑÑеÑкого обмена — ее
+ÑледÑÐµÑ ÑважаÑÑ, поÑÑомÑ-Ñо и новÑй, и
ÑÑаÑÑй новозеландÑкий закон об
+авÑоÑÑком пÑаве неÑпÑаведлив, а новÑй
закон вводиÑÑÑ ÑпеÑиалÑно Ð´Ð»Ñ Ñого,
+ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð½Ð°ÐºÐ°Ð·ÑваÑÑ Ð»Ñдей оÑклÑÑением оÑ
ÐнÑеÑнеÑа Ñ ÑелÑÑ Ð¿ÑекÑаÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¾Ð±Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ð° Ñ
+иÑ
ÑÑоÑонÑ, а не даваÑÑ Ð»ÑдÑм обмениваÑÑÑÑ
дÑÑно, Ñак ÑÑо, даже еÑли Ð±Ñ Ð¾Ð½Ð¸
+ÑабоÑали в дÑÑгом напÑавлении над
доÑÑижением ÑÑой неÑпÑаведливой Ñели, ведÑ
+плоÑ
а Ñама ÑелÑ, а не ÑолÑко ÑÑи пакоÑÑнÑе
меÑодÑ, поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо ÑолÑко
+дÑаконовÑкими меÑодами можно оÑÑановиÑÑ
обмен ÑÑеди лÑдей.
+</p></dd>
+
+<dt>[32:51]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Чем Ð²Ñ Ð·Ð°ÑабаÑÑваеÑе на жизнÑ, еÑли не
ÑекÑеÑ?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑÑÑÑплениÑми; не вÑеми вÑÑÑÑплениÑми,
за многие мне не плаÑÑÑ, а за многие
+плаÑÑÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ð ÑÑим-Ñо Ð²Ñ Ð¸ заÑабаÑÑваеÑе на жизнÑ?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа. Ðне нÑжно не много.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>РпоÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð±Ñ Ð²Ð°Ð¼ не подÑмаÑÑ Ð¾ Ñом, ÑÑобÑ
бÑаÑÑ Ð´ÐµÐ½Ñги за Ñо, Ñем вÑ
+ÑÑаÑÑÐ»Ð¸Ð²Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð¸ÑÑÑÑ? ÐÑ Ð¾ÑдаеÑе ÑÑо
даÑом.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>РобÑем Ñ ÑÑаÑаÑÑÑ Ð¸Ð·Ð±ÐµÐ³Ð°ÑÑ Ð²ÑÑкого Ñода
плаÑÑ Ð·Ð° вÑ
од. ХоÑÑ Ñ Ð²ÑÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð¾Ñ
+вÑемени ÑоглаÑаÑÑÑ Ð²ÑÑÑÑпиÑÑ Ð½Ð°
конÑеÑенÑии, на коÑоÑой за ÑегиÑÑÑаÑиÑ
+взимаÑÑ Ð¿Ð»Ð°ÑÑ, но ÑаÑÑо Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑÑ ÑделаÑÑ Ð²Ñ
од на мое вÑÑÑÑпление
+ÑвободнÑм. Так ÑÑо в обÑем Ñ ÑÑаÑаÑÑÑ
оÑкÑÑÑÑ ÑÑо Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¿Ñблики на
+безвозмездной оÑнове, поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо Ñ Ñ
оÑÑ,
ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¿ÑиÑло как можно болÑÑе
+лÑдей, поÑÐ¾Ð¼Ñ ÑÑо Ñ ÑабоÑÐ°Ñ Ð´Ð»Ñ Ñвоего
дела, в конÑе конÑов, и Ñ Ñ
оÑÑ
+пÑинеÑÑи ÐµÐ¼Ñ ÐºÐ°Ðº можно болÑÑÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑзÑ.</dd>
+
+<dt>[33:48]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑмаеÑе ли вÑ, ÑÑо пÑиближаеÑеÑÑ Ðº
победе?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐнаеÑе, поÑÑепенно пÑиближаемÑÑ. Ðо Ñ
наÑ, конеÑно, вÑе еÑе много
+пÑоÑивников, нам надо еÑе много боÑоÑÑÑÑ.
ÐнаеÑе, в новозеландÑком законе об
+авÑоÑÑком пÑаве еÑÑÑ ÐµÑе кое-ÑÑо, ÑÑо
пÑинÑли год назад, ÑÑо неÑпÑаведливо и
+в некоÑоÑÑÑ
ÑлÑÑаÑÑ
запÑеÑаеÑ
ÑаÑпÑоÑÑÑанение ÑвободнÑÑ
пÑогÑамм,
коÑоÑÑе
+могÑÑ Ð²Ð·Ð»Ð°Ð¼ÑваÑÑ ÑиÑÑовÑе наÑÑÑники. ÐÑе
болÑÑе и болÑÑе пÑодÑкÑов
+пÑоекÑиÑÑеÑÑÑ Ñ ÑиÑÑовÑми наÑÑÑниками, Ñо
еÑÑÑ ÑÑнкÑиÑми Ð´Ð»Ñ Ñого, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð½Ðµ
+даÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑзоваÑÐµÐ»Ñ ÑÑо-Ñо делаÑÑ. Так ÑÑо
когда Ñ ÑейÑÐ°Ñ ÑлÑÑÑ Ð¾ новом
+пÑодÑкÑе или новой ÑлÑжбе, Ð¼Ð¾Ñ Ð¿ÐµÑваÑ
мÑÑÐ»Ñ — “ÑÑо в ÑÑом
+вÑедоноÑно?”, “ÑÑо в нем заложено длÑ
Ñого, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¾Ð³ÑаниÑиваÑÑ
+Ñо, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑе делаÑÑ?” Ð ÑÑи пÑодÑкÑÑ
оÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ð²ÑедоноÑнÑ, напÑимеÑ,
+еÑÑÑ Amazon Kindle, ÑÑÑÑойÑÑво ÑÑениÑ
ÑлекÑÑоннÑÑ
книг, и они назвали его
+Kindle, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð²ÑÑазиÑÑ, какое дейÑÑвие в
оÑноÑении наÑиÑ
книг в нем
+заложено <a href="#tf1">[1]</a>.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑо не пÑавда.</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðо ÑÑо вÑÑÐ°Ð¶Ð°ÐµÑ Ñо, ÑÑо он бÑÐ´ÐµÑ Ð´ÐµÐ»Ð°ÑÑ Ñ
наÑими книгами. Ðело в Ñом, ÑÑо
+ÑÑÐ¾Ñ Ð¿ÑодÑÐºÑ Ð¿ÑÐ¾Ð²Ð¾Ð´Ð¸Ñ ÑлежкÑ, он вÑнÑждаеÑ
полÑзоваÑÐµÐ»Ñ ÑдоÑÑовеÑÑÑÑ ÑвоÑ
+лиÑноÑÑÑ Ð¿Ñи покÑпке книги, и в Amazon еÑÑÑ
ÑпиÑок, они знаÑÑ Ð² ÑоÑноÑÑи,
+кÑо ÑÑо кÑпил. Ðалее, он ÑпÑоекÑиÑован Ñак,
ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¾Ð³ÑаниÑиваÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾Ð»ÑзоваÑелÑ,
+ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð½Ðµ даÑÑ Ð»ÑдÑм обмениваÑÑÑÑ, даваÑÑ
дÑÑзÑÑм книги на вÑемÑ, пÑодаваÑÑ
+иÑ
в бÑкиниÑÑиÑеÑкиÑ
магазинаÑ
и делаÑÑ
Ñо, ÑÑо Ð¼Ñ Ð·Ð°ÐºÐ¾Ð½Ð½Ð¾ можем делаÑÑ Ñ
+ÑипогÑаÑÑкими книгами. Ð¥Ñже Ñого: в нем
еÑÑÑ ÑеÑнÑй Ñ
од, и Amazon можеÑ
+поÑÑлаÑÑ ÐºÐ¾Ð¼Ð°Ð½Ð´Ñ Ð´Ð»Ñ Ð¼Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ð¿ÑлÑÑий Ñ Ð²Ð°Ð¼Ð¸ по
ÑеÑи, Ð¼Ñ Ñзнали об ÑÑом неÑколÑко
+меÑÑÑев назад.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÐ»Ñ ÐºÐ°ÐºÐ¸Ñ
манипÑлÑÑий?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ, Amazon поÑлала на вÑе Kindle командÑ,
пÑиказав им ÑÑеÑеÑÑ Ð²Ñе копии
+опÑеделенной книги, а именно, <cite>1984</cite>
ÐжоÑджа ÐÑÑÑлла. ÐÑо-Ñо
+Ñказал, ÑÑо они изÑаÑÑ
одовали годовой
Ð·Ð°Ð¿Ð°Ñ Ð¸Ñонии, вÑбÑав ÑÑÑ ÐºÐ½Ð¸Ð³Ñ. Так
+ÑÑо ÑепеÑÑ Ð¼Ñ Ð·Ð½Ð°ÐµÐ¼, ÑÑо Amazon Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑ ÑÑиÑаÑÑ
ваÑи книги на ÑаÑÑÑоÑнии. Так
+воÑ, ÐºÐ¾Ð¼Ð¿Ð°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Amazon поÑле ÑÑого обеÑала, ÑÑо
ÑÑо никогда не повÑоÑиÑÑÑ, но
+наÑа Ñвобода ÑоÑ
ÑанÑÑÑ ÐºÐ½Ð¸Ð³Ñ ÑÑолÑко,
ÑколÑко Ð¼Ñ Ñ
оÑим, и ÑиÑаÑÑ ÐµÐµ ÑÑолÑко
+Ñаз, ÑколÑко Ð¼Ñ Ñ
оÑим, не должна завиÑеÑÑ
Ð¾Ñ Ð´Ð¾Ð±Ñой воли какой Ð±Ñ Ñо ни бÑло
+компании.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðде же Ð²Ñ Ð±ÐµÑеÑе книги?</dd>
+
+<dt>[36:13]<br />
+РС</dt>
+<dd>Я покÑÐ¿Ð°Ñ ÐºÐ½Ð¸Ð³Ð¸ в книжнÑÑ
магазинаÑ
. Ðа,
Ñ Ð¸Ð´Ñ Ð² магазин и говоÑÑ:
+“Ðне нÑжно вон Ñо”.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ð Ð²Ñ Ð²ÑÑÑаеÑе денÑги за ÑÑо? ХоÑÑ Ð²Ñ
ÑÑиÑаеÑе, ÑÑо ÑÑо не оÑобенно Ñ
оÑоÑаÑ
+ÑиÑÑема?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Так Ñ Ð½Ðµ говоÑил, ÑÑо ÑÑо плоÑ
аÑ
ÑиÑÑема.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðо Ñазве Ð²Ñ Ð½Ðµ пеÑедаеÑе денÑги
коÑпоÑаÑиÑм вмеÑÑо авÑоÑов?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>РзнаÑиÑелÑной меÑе ÑÑо веÑно, но Ñ Ð½Ðµ
ÑобиÑаÑÑÑ Ð¾ÑказÑваÑÑÑÑ Ð¾Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ÐºÑпки
+книги ÑолÑко из-за ÑÑого. Ðа книги-Ñо на
Ñамом деле некоÑоÑÑе авÑоÑÑ, как
+пÑавило, денÑги полÑÑаÑÑ. ÐÑли ÑÑо не
ÑÑебники.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐоÑколÑÐºÑ ÑеÑÑ Ð·Ð°Ñла о ÑвободаÑ
, Ñлежке
и ÑиÑÑовом наблÑдении, необÑÑайнÑй
+подÑем ÑоÑиалÑнÑÑ
ÑеÑей...</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Я покÑÐ¿Ð°Ñ Ð¸ компакÑ-диÑки Ñ Ð¼ÑзÑкой, Ñ
оÑÑ
в ÑÑом ÑлÑÑае Ñ Ð·Ð½Ð°Ñ, ÑÑо
+мÑзÑканÑам не заплаÑÑÑ, Ñак ÑÑо Ñ Ð±Ñ Ð²Ð¼ÐµÑÑо
ÑÑого поÑлал им какие-Ñо денÑги.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Ðга, и Ð²Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ÑÑлаеÑе?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Я Ñ
оÑел бÑ, но Ñ Ð¼ÐµÐ½Ñ Ð½ÐµÑ ÑпоÑоба, Ñак ÑÑо
Ñ Ð¿ÑÑаÑÑÑ ÑбедиÑÑ Ð»Ñдей
+оÑганизоваÑÑ ÑиÑÑемÑ, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð¾Ð±Ð»ÐµÐ³ÑиÑÑ
ÑÑо.</dd>
+
+<dt>[37:16]<br />
+ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>Я ÑвеÑен, ÑÑо они ÑейÑÐ°Ñ Ð¿ÑиÑÑлаÑÑ Ð½Ð°Ð¼
Ñвои адÑеÑа. ÐÑÐµÐ½Ñ ÐºÑаÑко: подÑем
+ÑоÑиалÑнÑÑ
ÑеÑей — пÑедÑÑавлÑÐµÑ Ð»Ð¸
он, по-ваÑемÑ, пÑÐ¾Ð±Ð»ÐµÐ¼Ñ Ð´Ð»Ñ
+непÑикоÑновенноÑÑи ÑаÑÑной жизни?</dd>
+
+<dt>РС</dt>
+<dd>Ðа, и Ñ Ð½Ðµ полÑзÑÑÑÑ ÑÑими ÑайÑами, в
оÑновном поÑомÑ, ÑÑо мне некогда, Ñ
+занÑÑ Ð´ÑÑгими делами. Я не дÑмаÑ, ÑÑо ÑайÑÑ
ÑоÑиалÑнÑÑ
ÑеÑей обÑзаÑелÑно
+Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ñ Ð±ÑÑÑ Ñем-Ñо плоÑ
им, но они пÑиводÑÑ
лÑдей к безÑаÑÑÑднÑм
+занÑÑиÑм. Так ÑÑо Ñ Ð´ÑмаÑ, ÑÑо ÑÑиÑнаÑ
ÑоÑиалÑÐ½Ð°Ñ ÑеÑÑ Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ð° пÑедÑпÑеждаÑÑ
+лÑдей, и каждÑй Ñаз, когда Ð²Ñ Ð¿Ð¾Ð´ÐºÐ»ÑÑаеÑеÑÑ
к ней, она должна пÑедÑпÑеждаÑÑ
+ваÑ: “ÐÑе, ÑÑо Ð²Ñ Ð·Ð´ÐµÑÑ ÑазмеÑÑиÑе, можеÑ
ÑÑаÑÑ Ð¸Ð·Ð²ÐµÑÑно ÑиÑокой
+пÑблике незавиÑимо Ð¾Ñ Ð²Ð°ÑиÑ
наÑÑÑоек Ñак
назÑваемой конÑиденÑиалÑноÑÑи. Так
+ÑÑо еÑли Ð²Ñ Ð½Ðµ Ñ
оÑиÑе, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ ÑÑо полÑÑило
извеÑÑноÑÑÑ, Ð²Ñ Ð½Ðµ Ð´Ð¾Ð»Ð¶Ð½Ñ Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ÑиÑÑ
+ÑÑого здеÑÑ”.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑо Ñ
оÑоÑее пÑедÑпÑеждение. СпаÑибо, Ñ
вами бÑло оÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ð¿ÑиÑÑно побеÑедоваÑÑ,
+РиÑаÑд СÑолмен.</dd>
+
+<dt>[38:08]<br />
+РС</dt>
+<dd>ÐÑ Ð´Ð°Ð¶Ðµ вÑколÑÐ·Ñ Ð½Ðµ коÑнÑлиÑÑ ACTA,
ÑекÑеÑного договоÑа, коÑоÑÑй обÑÑждаеÑ
+ÐÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ ÐÐµÐ»Ð°Ð½Ð´Ð¸Ñ Ð¸ коÑоÑÑй бÑдеÑ
огÑаниÑиваÑÑ ÐµÐµ гÑаждан; и они Ñоже ÑÑого не
+коÑнÑÑÑÑ; они говоÑÑÑ Ð¸Ð·Ð´Ð°ÑелÑм, ÑÑо еÑÑÑ Ð²
ÑекÑÑе, над коÑоÑÑм они
+ÑабоÑаÑÑ, но пÑблике они не ÑкажÑÑ. Так ÑÑо
ÑÑÑÑ Ð² Ñом, ÑÑо вÑе ÑÑи
+многоÑиÑленнÑе гоÑÑдаÑÑÑва, в Ñом ÑиÑле,
конеÑно, и СШÐ, ÑоÑÑавлÑÑÑ
+ÑекÑеÑнÑй заговоÑ, ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ Ð½Ð°Ð»Ð¾Ð¶Ð¸ÑÑ Ð½Ð° наÑ
новÑе огÑаниÑÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð² оÑноÑении
+авÑоÑÑкиÑ
пÑав, и ÑаÑÑÑÑ Ð¸Ñ
новой
пÑÐ¾Ð¿Ð°Ð³Ð°Ð½Ð´Ñ ÑвлÑеÑÑÑ Ñо, ÑÑо они назÑваÑÑ
+обмен “конÑÑаÑакÑией”.
+Ðо дело в Ñом, ÑÑо в ÑÑом ÑоглаÑении бÑдÑÑ
пÑнкÑÑ, коÑоÑÑе огÑаниÑиваÑÑ
+обÑеÑÑво, как Ð¼Ñ Ð´Ñмаем, но нам они не
ÑкажÑÑ. ÐÑо назÑваеÑÑÑ Ð¾ÑмÑванием
+полиÑики, ÑÑо обÑÐ°Ñ Ð¿ÑакÑика; вмеÑÑо Ñого,
ÑÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ ÑаÑÑмоÑÑеÑÑ Ð·Ð°ÐºÐ¾Ð½
+демокÑаÑиÑеÑким пÑÑем, а ÑÑо знаÑиÑ, ÑÑо
обÑеÑÑвенноÑÑи извеÑÑно, ÑÑо
+обÑÑждаеÑÑÑ, ÑÑо она обÑаÑаеÑÑÑ Ðº
законодаÑелÑм, видиÑ, как пÑоÑ
одиÑ
+голоÑование и Ñак далее,— вмеÑÑо ÑÑого
они ведÑÑ ÑекÑеÑнÑе пеÑеговоÑÑ
+о ÑоглаÑении, а заÑем они возвÑаÑаÑÑÑÑ Ð¸
говоÑÑÑ: “ÐÑ Ð½Ðµ можем
+измениÑÑ ÑÑо ÑоглаÑение и мÑ, оÑевидно, не
можем Ð¾Ñ Ð½ÐµÐ³Ð¾ оÑказаÑÑÑÑ, Ñак ÑÑо
+Ñ ÑÑим поконÑено, Ð¼Ñ Ð¿ÑоÑÑо завели ÑвоÑ
ÑÑÑÐ°Ð½Ñ Ð² ÑÑпик Ñ ÑÑим
+законом”.</dd>
+
+<dt>ÐÐ¥</dt>
+<dd>РоÑÐµÐ½Ñ Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÑ Ð±ÑÑÑ, ÑÑо Ð¼Ñ Ñвидим ÑÑоÑ
закон ÑеÑез две или ÑÑи недели.</dd>
+</dl>
+
+
+<div style="font-size: small;">
+
+<!--TRANSLATORS: Use space (SPC) as msgstr if you don't have notes.-->
+<h3>ÐÑимеÑÐ°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿ÐµÑеводÑиков</h3>
+<ol>
+<li id="tf1"><span lang="en"
+xml:lang="en">Kindle</span> —
+<i>англ.</i> “зажигаÑÑ”.</li>
+</ol></div>
+</div>
+
+<!-- for id="content", starts in the include above -->
+<!--#include virtual="/server/footer.ru.html" -->
+<div id="footer">
+
+<p>ÐожалÑйÑÑа, пÑиÑÑлайÑе обÑие запÑоÑÑ
ÑÐ¾Ð½Ð´Ñ Ð¸ GNU по адÑеÑÑ <a
+href="mailto:address@hidden"><address@hidden></a>. ÐÑÑÑ Ñакже <a
+href="/contact/">дÑÑгие ÑпоÑÐ¾Ð±Ñ ÑвÑзаÑÑÑÑ</a> Ñ
Ñондом. ÐÑÑеÑÑ Ð¾
+неÑабоÑаÑÑиÑ
ÑÑÑлкаÑ
и дÑÑгие попÑавки
или пÑÐµÐ´Ð»Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¼Ð¾Ð¶Ð½Ð¾ пÑиÑÑлаÑÑ Ð¿Ð¾
+адÑеÑÑ <a href="mailto:address@hidden"><address@hidden></a>.</p>
+
+<p>
+<!-- TRANSLATORS: Ignore the original text in this paragraph,
+ replace it with the translation of these two:
+
+ We work hard and do our best to provide accurate, good quality
+ translations. However, we are not exempt from imperfection.
+ Please send your comments and general suggestions in this regard
+ to <a href="mailto:address@hidden">
+
+ <address@hidden></a>.</p>
+
+ <p>For information on coordinating and submitting translations of
+ our web pages, see <a
+ href="/server/standards/README.translations.html">Translations
+ README</a>. -->
+ÐÑ ÑÑаÑалиÑÑ ÑделаÑÑ ÑÑÐ¾Ñ Ð¿ÐµÑевод ÑоÑнÑм и
каÑеÑÑвеннÑм, но иÑклÑÑиÑÑ
+возможноÑÑÑ Ð¾Ñибки Ð¼Ñ Ð½Ðµ можем.
ÐÑиÑÑлайÑе, пожалÑйÑÑа, Ñвои замеÑÐ°Ð½Ð¸Ñ Ð¸
+пÑÐµÐ´Ð»Ð¾Ð¶ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ пеÑÐµÐ²Ð¾Ð´Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ адÑеÑÑ <a
+href="mailto:address@hidden"><address@hidden></a>.
+</p><p>Ð¡Ð²ÐµÐ´ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ кооÑдинаÑии и
пÑедложениÑм пеÑеводов наÑиÑ
ÑÑаÑей Ñм. в
+<a href="/server/standards/README.translations.html">“Ð
ÑководÑÑве по
+пеÑеводам”</a>.</p>
+
+<!-- Regarding copyright, in general, standalone pages (as opposed to
+ files generated as part of manuals) on the GNU web server should
+ be under CC BY-ND 3.0 US. Please do NOT change or remove this
+ without talking with the webmasters or licensing team first.
+ Please make sure the copyright date is consistent with the
+ document. For web pages, it is ok to list just the latest year the
+ document was modified, or published.
+
+ If you wish to list earlier years, that is ok too.
+ Either "2001, 2002, 2003" or "2001-2003" are ok for specifying
+ years, as long as each year in the range is in fact a copyrightable
+ year, i.e., a year in which the document was published (including
+ being publicly visible on the web or in a revision control system).
+
+ There is more detail about copyright years in the GNU Maintainers
+ Information document, www.gnu.org/prep/maintain. -->
+<p>Copyright © 2009, 2010 Jim Cheetham.<br />Copyright © 2013 Free
+Software Foundation, Inc.</p>
+
+<p>ÐÑа запиÑÑ Ð´Ð¾ÑÑÑпна по <a rel="license"
+href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/nz/deed.ru">лиÑензии
+Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs (<em>ÐÑÑибÑÑÐ¸Ñ —
+ÐекоммеÑÑеÑкое иÑполÑзование — Ðез
пÑоизводнÑÑ
пÑоизведений</em>)
+3.0 ÐÐ¾Ð²Ð°Ñ ÐеландиÑ</a>.
+</p>
+
+<!--#include virtual="/server/bottom-notes.ru.html" -->
+<div class="translators-credits">
+
+<!--TRANSLATORS: Use space (SPC) as msgstr if you don't want credits.-->
+<em>Ðнимание! РподгоÑовке ÑÑого пеÑевода
ÑÑаÑÑвовал ÑолÑко один Ñеловек. ÐÑ
+можеÑе ÑÑÑеÑÑвенно ÑлÑÑÑиÑÑ Ð¿ÐµÑевод, еÑли
пÑовеÑиÑе его и ÑаÑÑкажеÑе о
+найденнÑÑ
оÑибкаÑ
в <a
+href="http://savannah.gnu.org/projects/www-ru">ÑÑÑÑкой гÑÑппе
пеÑеводов
+gnu.org</a>.</em></div>
+
+
+ <p><!-- timestamp start -->
+Ðбновлено:
+
+$Date: 2013/12/31 07:11:44 $
+
+<!-- timestamp end -->
+</p>
+</div>
+</div>
+</body>
+</html>
Index: po/rms-on-radio-nz.ru-en.html
===================================================================
RCS file: po/rms-on-radio-nz.ru-en.html
diff -N po/rms-on-radio-nz.ru-en.html
--- /dev/null 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 -0000
+++ po/rms-on-radio-nz.ru-en.html 31 Dec 2013 07:11:46 -0000 1.1
@@ -0,0 +1,1026 @@
+<!--#include virtual="/server/header.html" -->
+<!-- Parent-Version: 1.75 -->
+<title>RMS on Radio New Zealand -
+GNU Project - Free Software Foundation</title>
+<!--#include virtual="/philosophy/po/rms-on-radio-nz.translist" -->
+<!--#include virtual="/server/banner.html" -->
+<h2>RMS on Radio NZ - October 2009</h2>
+
+<p>Saturday 3 October 2009 / approx. 9.05 am NZST</p>
+<p>Radio New Zealand National / Saturdays with Kim Hill<br />
+Interview between Kim Hill (presenter) and Richard M Stallman</p>
+<p>Transcript by Jim
+Cheetham <a href="mailto:address@hidden"><address@hidden></a>
+with permission from Radio New Zealand.</p>
+
+<h3>Interesting sections</h3>
+<ul>
+<li>[00:00] Introduction</li>
+<li>[00:40] Surveillance</li>
+<li>[00:19] Terrorism and 9/11</li>
+<li>[04:30] Barack Obama</li>
+<li>[06:23] Airline Security</li>
+<li>[08:02] Digital Surveillance</li>
+<li>[10:26] Systematic Surveillance</li>
+<li>[12:20] Taxi surveillance</li>
+<li>[14:25] Matters of Principle — cellphones</li>
+<li>[15:33] Free Software and Freedom</li>
+<li>[17:24] Free Trade treaties</li>
+<li>[20:08] Cars, microwaves and planes</li>
+<li>[21:05] Copying books</li>
+<li>[25:31] E-books & supporting artists</li>
+<li>[28:42] Micropayments</li>
+<li>[30:47] A simplistic political philosophy?</li>
+<li>[32:51] Income</li>
+<li>[33:48] Digital handcuffs — Amazon Kindle</li>
+<li>[36:13] Buying books</li>
+<li>[37:16] Social networking</li>
+<li>[38:08] The
+<acronym title="Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement">ACTA</acronym></li>
+</ul>
+
+
+<dl>
+<dt>[00:00]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>We spoke to Richard Stallman a while ago last year about his
+campaign for Free Software. He's a hero, of course, of the movement;
+launched the Free Software Foundation, campaigns against software
+patents and extensions of copyright laws. His battle is, as he told
+us last year, against what he calls extreme capitalism. His GNU
+operating system with Linux was the first Free operating system that
+could run on a PC. Richard Stallman says “it's all about
+freedom”, a cause which goes beyond software; and we could talk
+about the others he's identified, surveillance and censorship, because
+he joins me now, hello.</dd>
+
+<dt>[00:40]<br />
+RMS</dt>
+<dd>Hello</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Let us talk about surveillance and censorship. I've been looking
+at your personal website and you're talking about fingerprinting of
+air travelers, for example, which is something you're very hot
+about.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Yes, I urge people to refuse to go to the US where they would be
+mistreated that way.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Why is that mistreatment, do you think?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Because it's too much information to collect about people who
+aren't criminals. And by the way for the same reason I will not ever
+go to Japan again unless they changed that policy, which makes me sad,
+but one must …</dd>
+
+<dt>[01:19]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>It's not justifiable in order to make sure that terrorists aren't
+getting on the plane?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>There's no need. Basically terrorism, and by the way we don't
+really know who was behind the September 11th attacks in the US, we
+don't know whether it was a bunch of Muslim fanatics, or it was a
+bunch of Christian fanatics and the White House. We do know that Bush
+corrupted and sabotaged the investigation when he was unable to
+prevent it from happening.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>So, are you an advocate of the conspiracy theories surrounding
+9/11?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>I can't say … first of all I think it's unfair — we
+know that the attack was a conspiracy. All the theories are
+conspiracies.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Well, all right, the conspiracy theory for example, that has the
+Bush administration staging the 9/11 attack in order to justify
+…</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>I don't know. The only way there could ever be proof of that is
+with a real investigation, but when you have a government not allowing
+a real investigation of a horrible crime then you've got to suspect
+that they're hiding something. Now I can't know for certain what
+they're hiding, but I want a real investigation to be carried out with
+the power to subpoena anyone possibly concerned, including Bush, and
+make those people testify under oath and show them no deference that
+everyone else wouldn't get.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Putting 9/11 aside then because we haven't got time here to go
+into the various theories about what could possibly have caused 9/11,
+there is undoubtedly a thing called terrorism.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Yes, but it's a minor problem. More people died in the US in
+September 2001 from car accidents than from a terrorist attack, and
+that continues month after month, but we don't have a Global War on
+Accidents, so basically politicians used a real danger, but not the
+world's biggest danger, as an excuse for what they want to do, which
+is … and remember that these governments are much more
+dangerous, it's quite clear that Bush's invasion of Iraq was far more
+destructive than anything non state-sponsored terrorists have been
+able to do — that's assuming that those terrorists in September
+2001 were not state-sponsored, which we don't know — but the
+point is, what Bush did by invading Iraq, using those attacks as an
+excuse, was tremendously worse and we must remember than governments
+gone amok can do far more damage than anybody not state-sponsored.
+
+<span class="gnun-split"></span>After all, governments have a lot more men
under arms and they don't
+have to hide the fact that they have men under arms, so they're in a
+much bigger position to do damage, so we must be concerned about
+letting them have too much power. A world in which the police can
+easily do whatever they'd like to do is a world in which the police
+are a threat.</dd>
+
+<dt>[04:30]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>Last time we spoke, and we were talking about the issue of Free
+Software, but specifically in relation to that you doubted that
+President Bush's successor, who we now know is Barack Obama, would be
+pretty much any different from Bush.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>He's a little different, but I have to say he's small change. On
+human rights issues he's not very different. He's still in favor of
+keeping people in prison, without charges, indefinitely, and you can't
+get much worse than that in terms of human rights.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Well except he's addressing Guantanamo Bay.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well that's just one of the places where it's done, it's done also
+in Bagram in Afghanistan, and I really don't see why it would be
+better to move those people to Bagram. What has to be done is charge
+them or release them. They're entitled to that.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Yeah, they may be entitled to that but he's also democratically
+elected President who …</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>That doesn't mean he's entitled to violate human rights.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>No, but would the American people be in favor of the release of
+those …</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>I don't know.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>… that's got to be a consideration.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>No it's not, if they're not that just makes them responsible.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>I know you're …</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>I don't think I can excuse massive violations of human rights by
+saying that the public is maddened and supports it. Especially, why
+are they so maddened? Because of a constant propaganda campaign
+telling you “Be terrified of terrorists”, “throw
+away your human rights and everyone else's because you're so scared of
+these terrorists”. It's disproportionate, we have to keep these
+dangers in their proportion, there isn't a campaign saying “be
+terrified of getting in a car” but maybe there ought to be.</dd>
+
+<dt>[06:23]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>Most airline security, getting back to the fingerprinting issue,
+you've said is just for show.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>A lot of it is, not all of it is, I'm very glad that they have
+reinforced the cabin doors so that hijackers can't get at the pilots,
+OK, that's a sensible measure.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>But are you? I would have thought that you would have said
+“why would they spend money reinforcing the cabin doors because
+hijackers are a minor issue”.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>I'm not against spending a little bit of money.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>You're saying that that issue isn't an infringement of human
+rights.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>OK, and I don't mind spending some money for safety, I even make
+some compromises you know on issues of rights, I'm not saying police
+shouldn't be able to get a search warrant, but they should have to go
+to a Judge, to present probable cause, to keep them in check because
+police are very dangerous when they run amok, as people discovered a
+few months ago in London, when the police did run amok, and they
+killed somebody who was trying to walk home past a protest, and he
+couldn't get home because the police were just deliberately blocking
+the streets, and then they hit him. And then they lied about it too,
+which they typically do. Whenever the police attack someone they lie
+about him, they lie about what they did, and they lie about what he
+was doing, to make it sound that they were justified in mistreating
+him in the first place, it's standard practice, they're like an armed
+gang.</dd>
+
+<dt>[08:02]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>If you don't agree with surveillance, is there any way that you
+would accept that it might be quite a handy thing, CCTV …</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Wait a second, your view of surveillance is oversimplifying
+things, what I see happening with computers is they make possible a
+form of total surveillance which wasn't feasible in the past, even
+governments like Romania under Ceaușescu, or East Germany with
+the Stasi, they did a lot of surveillance but it took a lot of people
+working on it and even then it was limited what they could actually
+watch and record because it was so hard. Now, we're entering a kind
+of surveillance society that has never been seen before …</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>You're talking about digital surveillance.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Yes, but as people do more things using digital technology it
+becomes easy to keep a record of everything everyone has done, things
+that weren't done in the past and still aren't done with other media,
+there's no record of who sends a letter to who for all letters, it
+just isn't done. But there are records in many countries of who sends
+an email to whom and those records can be saved for years and we don't
+know that they'll ever be disposed of.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>If you think that governments are not to be trusted, which is a
+legitimate position of course, and if you think that the police are
+not to be trusted, again a legitimate position, why can't you feel
+happier about digital surveillance and CCTV surveillance given that it
+may well give the people more protection.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Oh, I'm all in favor of the right to make and record videos, such
+as when you're on the street or when you're watching a protest or
+whatever, I'm concerned about systematic surveillance.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>What is that, systematic surveillance?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well suppose the police set up a camera that always watches the
+street, and connects it to a face recognition program and make a
+database of everyone who passes, that's systematic surveillance. Now
+if you walk down the street and maybe you see somebody you know and
+you recognize him, that's not systematic surveillance, that's a whole
+bunch of people knowing something, there's nothing wrong with that,
+that's just what life is.</dd>
+
+<dt>[10:26]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>What makes systematic surveillance more sinister to you?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Because we know that there's a tendency for many different
+governments to treat dissenters as terrorists, and investigate them
+using laws that were set up supposedly to help them prevent terrorism.
+We know also that they tend to sabotage political activities, and this
+is dangerous.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>What's wrong with being investigated?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well, it depends if the government's investigating you because
+you're a political dissident, there are a lot of things they could do
+to harass you. One thing I remember was in England, a busload of
+protesters, they were on they way to a protest, the police stopped
+their bus and drove them away from the protest, and they cited a law
+that had been passed to supposedly prevent terrorism. Well this is
+sabotaging political activity. And then another thing that happens I
+know in England, is people have been prosecuted for copies of texts
+that they have, you know reading is sometimes illegal, it's really
+dangerous. What we see is a global tendency for governments to bring
+out the worst side of themselves with terrorism as the excuse, so we
+must be on guard against that, that's potentially a much bigger danger
+than the terrorists it's supposed to protect us from. I don't have to
+say that they don't exist, or that they're no danger at all.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>No, the difficulty is being on guard against the danger that
+you've cited, without giving quarter to …</dd>
+
+<dt>[12:20]<br />
+RMS</dt>
+<dd>Ah, no I don't see it's any problem at all. Police have lots of
+things they can do to investigate people and it's more all the time
+and whenever there's a specific reason to suspect particular people
+they can basically get permission to search whatever. So OK, that's
+necessary, but beyond that we've got to be careful not to go, and the
+digital surveillance society goes far beyond that, there's a tendency
+to keep records of everything, check everything. In New York City for
+instance a taxi driver told me he had been required to install a
+camera which transmits by radio people's faces to the police where
+they run face recognition over it.
+<span class="gnun-split"></span>I don't think that should be
+allowed. I don't mind if they have a system that records people's
+faces and keeps it for a week in case somebody attacks the taxi
+driver, that's not going to do anything to us if we don't attack taxi
+drivers. We can make use of surveillance technology in ways that
+don't threaten people's rights but we've got to make sure we use them
+in those ways.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>How come you can justify people being treated as if they're going
+to attack taxi drivers …</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>But you see there the point is, those are not looked at unless
+there's a crime to investigate and then they get erased if it's done
+right, but the way it's actually being done in New York City is
+they're sent to the police, and the police keep track of who goes
+where, and that's what scares me. Having all the information about
+what you do available to the police for years in the past whenever
+they want to look. Well part of what I do about this is I don't buy
+things with credit cards unless it's something where they demand to
+know who I am anyway, I don't use a credit card or any digital method,
+I use cash, and that way Big Brother's not making a database of every
+place I've been, that I bought anything in, what I bought.</dd>
+
+<dt>[14:25]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>As a matter of principle, rather than …</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>As a matter of principle. It's not an issue of convenience.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>You don't do quite a lot of things actually.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Yeah, I don't carry a cellphone because I really don't want to be
+telling Big Brother where I am all the time, every place I go.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Is that why?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Yes, that's why. Well now there's another reason. Today,
+cellphones are powerful computers and there's no way to run one
+without proprietary software.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>I thought that would be your main reason.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Actually there is one you can get, although they're not producing
+it anymore, it didn't work all that well, it's Mark One. So that's
+another issue, but that didn't exist, that issue wasn't there when
+cellphones first came out, people didn't install programs in them,
+they were just fixed appliances, but they have always raised the issue
+that they're constantly saying where you are, and I just don't want to
+participate in a system like that, I think people shouldn't. It would
+be very convenient for me to have a cellphone, I'm not one of those
+people who would, who says “I resent the fact that people can
+call me”, it's convenient when people can call me, but I'm not
+going to do it that way.</dd>
+
+<dt>[15:33]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>It's interesting that your battle for Free Software and the issues
+of freedom that you identify intersect. They didn't start out being
+the same — or did they?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well they didn't start out being the same. Pervasive digital
+surveillance wasn't a big problem twenty-seven years ago.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>But the people who were in charge were still the people who were
+in charge, the people who you identified as the people you didn't want
+to see …</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well actually they're not the same people. Proprietary software's
+mostly controlled by various private entities that are developers,
+maybe Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, Google, Amazon, they're all
+distributing proprietary software.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>I would have thought you'd identify them all as forces of extreme
+capitalism.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well I'm sorry, when I say extreme capitalism I'm talking about a
+philosophy, and that philosophy says “the market should control
+everything, everything should be for sale, and business should be
+allowed to dominate politics and get the laws it wants”, which
+is very different from mere capitalism, which says “within a
+society which we set up to protect peoples rights and so on, there are
+lots of things that people should be free to do, and make businesses
+to do them, as they wish”. That difference is why today's form
+of capitalism is running wild and why we see free exploitation
+treaties which basically undermine democracy and turn it in to a
+sham.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>What are you talking about there?</dd>
+
+<dt>[17:24]<br />
+RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well, the so-called Free Trade treaties, which I don't like to
+call that, they're designed to transfer power from our governments to
+companies. They all do this in one way, which is they let companies
+threaten to move to another country, or move their operations; and so
+any time the people are demanding that a government protect the
+environment, or the public health, or the general standard of living,
+or anything else that's more important than just who's going to buy
+and sell what, companies can say “we're against this, and if you
+do this we'll just move our operations elsewhere” and the
+politicians now have a wonderful excuse for why they're not going to
+do it.
+<span class="gnun-split"></span>Of course it was they who decided to adopt
that treaty in the
+first place which they shouldn't have done. But then a lot of these
+treaties go beyond that, and they explicitly deny democracy. Now the
+US had a law that said it wouldn't sell tuna — you weren't
+allowed to sell tuna in the US if it had been caught in a way that
+endangered dolphins. Well that law had to be scrapped because of the
+World Trade Organization, that's just one example.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Because it was regarded as a trade barrier.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Exactly. Then NAFTA, which is between the US, Canada and Mexico,
+allows companies to sue the government if they believe some law
+reduces their profits; effectively saying the highest value in society
+is how much money a company can make, and anything that gets in the
+way of that, we owe them.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Of course, we're in favor of Free Trade here, Richard, because we
+rely on it …</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well I'm not in favor of free trade beyond a certain point. The
+people who are in favor of Free Trade say that it can make everyone
+more prosperous and that's true up to a point, and that point is where
+it starts subverting democracy. But the point of these treaties is
+precisely to stretch free trade to the point where it does subvert
+democracy. And you can see business think-tanks reporting how they
+expect in a few decades governments will have much less control over
+what goes on in the world and business will have more control. What
+they're predicting is essentially that these treaties will march
+on.</dd>
+
+<dt>[20:08]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>One of the other things you don't do, is you don't drive a car, is
+that right?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>No, that's not true, I don't own a car. I do have a driver's
+license.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>OK, one of the other things you don't do is you don't own a
+car.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Yeah, well that's to save money. I live in a city.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>No philosophy.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>No, I don't think it's wrong to own a car, it's good if we all
+drove somewhat less.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>I thought that it was because of the proprietary software in
+cars.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Now that's an interesting issue. I have appliances, I have a
+microwave oven which might have some proprietary software in it.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>And you fly in planes.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Yeah. Well I don't own a plane though. I don't boycott everybody
+who uses proprietary software. If a company uses proprietary software
+I say that's too bad for them, but I'm not going to punish them by
+boycotting them, what I will try to do is explain to them why they
+deserve to have control over their computing rather than letting
+somebody else control their computing.</dd>
+
+<dt>[21:05]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>What are you going to tell the Library and Information Association
+Conference with regard to copyright and community?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well, I'm going to explain why copyright law today is an
+injustice, because it forbids sharing, and sharing is absolutely
+essential. People must be free to share, so the New Zealand Copyright
+Law that was adopted about a year ago, and only one of several unjust
+things in it was temporarily withdrawn, that went in the wrong
+direction, but it was already too restrictive, people must be free to
+non-commercially share exact copies of any published work.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>So just let me … how would this work, for a moment? I
+write a book, I spend, you know, five years of my life writing a
+book.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well who knows, maybe you do it in a month.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Maybe I don't do it in a month.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>The point is, you do it by choice. People wrote books before
+there was copyright. I think you're going about this backwards. It's
+your choice whether to spend time writing, and the main reason most
+writers spend their time writing is because they have something they
+say they want to write and they hope people will appreciate it. It's
+only a few who get enough money that it starts to corrupt their
+spirit.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Don't most societies want to, and they don't do it fantastically
+efficiently, but to some extent they try to encourage people to
+write.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Oh, I'm all in favor of encouraging people to write.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Now how would you encourage people to write?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well first of all remember that I'm not talking about abolishing
+copyright on artistic works, I'm saying that people must be free to
+non-commercially share them. Commercial use would still be covered by
+copyright as it is now.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>If I can print off a whole book and pass it on, and they pass it
+on, pass it on, pass it on, pass it on, as an author I'm not going to
+sell many.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well that may be so, or may not be. I've seen people claim that
+it's only works that are bestsellers that are likely to sell less,
+because remember if you're not a big hit and people pass along copies
+what they're doing is getting you more fans. If you're not a
+bestseller then what you mainly want commercially is exposure, and
+this is a way you'll get more exposure, and without having to pay for
+it either, and without having to give control to a company that would
+take most of the profits anyway.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>So hang on, the only reason an author would want exposure would be
+to increase the sales of their next book.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Oh no, no no no no no. Only the ones who've been morally
+corrupted and are no longer yearning to be read and appreciated,
+that's what they start out wanting, and a few, only a few get rich,
+and then those few who get rich, when people are paid to do something
+that they originally did from pleasure or a yearning, they tend to
+start wanting the money more, and the thing that they used to yearn to
+do, they want less.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>So if being read and appreciated is what authors want
+…</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well they start out wanting. Those who have got rich, some of
+them want to be rich.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Well we'll forget about those because you're implying they write
+bad books as a consequence.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>No I'm not saying that they're all bad, I'm not making a simple
+generalization like that, I say that their feelings have been
+corrupted, that doesn't necessarily mean their books are bad, I enjoy
+some of them. The point is that that's not a typical author.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>But a typical author you seem to be condemning to even more
+penury.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Oh no I'm not, you're mistaken.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>If they cannot sell the book …</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>You're mistaken, you're making a projection which people who know
+more about this disagree. Cory Doctorow who has been a bestselling
+author puts all his works on the net and he doesn't even think he
+sells less.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>So people still go out and buy the hard copy from the shop?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Yes they do.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Even though people can pass his book from hand to hand
+willy-nilly.</dd>
+
+<dt>[25:31]<br />
+RMS</dt>
+<dd>They can do that anyway you know with printed books, that's the
+motive for e-books. E-books are designed to stop you from doing
+things like lending the book to your friend or selling it to a used
+bookstore and borrowing it from a public library. They're designed to
+turn public libraries into retail outlets. And the reason they do
+this is they want to establish a pay-per-read universe. They're
+following the twisted logic that says the most important thing is how
+much money people pay and everybody who reads had a debt, now owes
+money and he has to be made to pay. I think this is entirely twisted
+and I'm against it, because the freedom to share must be respected.
+
+<span class="gnun-split"></span>But I have other proposals for ways to support
artists. And remember
+the current system mostly supports corporations, so I don't think it
+works very well. And it makes a few authors quite rich, and those get
+treated with great deference by the corporations, and the rest
+basically get ground into the dust. My proposals — I have two,
+and another that combines them — one proposal is support artists
+using taxes, it could either be a specific tax on Internet
+connectivity or general funds, it wouldn't be a tremendous amount of
+money by comparison with other government expenditures, and then you
+divide this among artists by measuring their popularity, but you don't
+divide it in linear proportion, 'cos if you did that a large portion
+of this money would go to making superstars richer and it's not
+needed, what I propose is take the cube root of the popularity.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>How do you assess their popularity?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>You could do it with polling.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>How polling? Internet polling?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>All sorts of polling, there's public opinion polling and anything,
+use a sample, the point is you don't ask everybody, nobody's required
+to participate. But you use a sample, and you use that to measure
+popularity.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>I'm just holding that thought, popularity. You're equating
+popularity with merit?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>No I'm not, but I'm saying you don't want bureaucrats to be
+deciding who gets these funds. So this is one way, you could do it by
+polling, after all the current system bases it on popularity to some
+extent. Take the cube root, so if A is a thousand times as popular as
+B, A will get ten times as much money as B, so this way it's the
+counterpart to a progressive income tax. So this way, yes if you're
+tremendously successful you do get more, but you don't get
+tremendously more, and most of the money goes to support a large
+number of artists of mid-range popularity.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>And tell me again, where does the money come from?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>It comes from taxes. It comes from all of us.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>General taxes.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Could be general taxes, or a specific special tax. Either way is
+OK.</dd>
+
+<dt>[28:42]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>Why don't you just ask people, if you're basing it on popularity,
+why don't you just ask people just to send in the money?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well that's my other proposal. If every player had a button to
+send a dollar I think people would do it often, after all the main
+reason we don't do it is how much trouble it is. It's not that you or
+I would miss a dollar, I often would be glad to send a dollar to some
+artists, but how am I going to do it? I need to use a credit card and
+identify myself and I need to find where to send it to them and that's
+a lot of work. Well, this button, which I hope would be implemented
+in an anonymous way, would take away all the work, it would be totally
+painless to send a dollar, and then I think a lot of people would do
+it.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>What about getting rid of taxes entirely, and giving us all the
+power to direct …</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>I'm not against taxes.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>I'm not suggesting you are, but I'm asking you why not?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Because we need to make sure that rich people pay their fair
+share, which is a bigger share than what poor people have to pay, to
+keep society going. We need a welfare state, at least at our current
+level of technology and the way society works, we need a welfare
+state, and the rich shouldn't be exempt from funding it.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Does it not matter that your popularity contest for artists may
+let the rich completely off the hook?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well, I'm not sure it matters. Supporting artists is desirable
+but it's not a matter of life and death in the same way that giving
+poor people food and shelter and medical care is, whether they're
+artists or not.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>I don't know, I think that if you look at society it's made up of
+all sorts of things that are contingent on one another for the health
+of the society.</dd>
+
+<dt>[30:47]<br />
+RMS</dt>
+<dd>Yes, but I don't want to have one answer for every question in
+society. I'm not a proponent of a very simplistic political
+philosophy, and I hope that that's visible. There are such
+people.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Yes, I'm sure there are. No, God no, I would never ever accuse
+you of being an advocate of a simplistic political philosophy :-)</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd><p>There are people who are totally opposed to copyright and
+criticize me for not going far enough, but what I say is that works
+whose use is to do practical jobs, these works must be Free in the
+sense of the Four Freedoms that define Free Software. You've got to
+be free to republish them, to modify them, publish your modified
+versions, because this is what the users of the works need in their
+lives. But of course there are lots of works that don't, that
+contribute to society in other ways, they're not functional practical
+works.</p>
+<p>Art for instance, the contribution of an artistic work is in the
+impact it makes on your mind, not in whatever practical job you might
+figure out how to do with it sometime. And then there are works that
+state people's opinions and thoughts and what they've seen, which is a
+different way that works can contribute to society, and I have
+different recommendations for these. But the freedom to
+non-commercially share, that must be respected, and that's why the new
+New Zealand Copyright Law and the old one were both unjust, and the
+purpose of the new one is, specifically the punishing people by
+disconnecting them from the Internet, the purpose of that is to stop
+people from sharing, and it's wrong to stop people from sharing, so
+even if they work out a different way of achieving this unjust goal,
+the goal is what's wrong, not only the nasty methods that are, because
+only draconian methods can stop people from sharing.
+</p></dd>
+
+<dt>[32:51]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>How do you make your income, if you don't mind me asking?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>From speeches; not all my speeches, a lot of them I give unpaid,
+and a lot of them I get paid.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>And that's how you make your income?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Yes. I don't spend a lot of money.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>And you wouldn't consider that being paid for something you should
+share happily? It's a donation.</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>I'd generally try to avoid having any admission charges. Once in
+a while I do agree to give a speech at a conference where they're
+charged people to register but often I will ask them to let the public
+in to my speech. So, in general I try to have it open to the public
+without charge because I want as many people as possible to come
+because I'm working for a cause, after all, and I want to do as much
+good as I can for this cause.</dd>
+
+<dt>[33:48]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>Do you think that you're winning?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>You know, gradually we are. But of course we still have a lot of
+opposition, we still have a lot to fight. You know, there's something
+else in the New Zealand Copyright Law that was adopted a year ago,
+which is unjust, and it prohibits in some cases the distribution of
+Free Software that can break digital handcuffs. More and more
+products are designed with digital handcuffs, that is features to stop
+the user from doing things. So nowadays when I hear about a new
+product or a new service my first thought is “what's malicious
+in that?”, “how is it designed to restrict what you can
+do?”. And these products are very malicious, for instance there
+is the Amazon Kindle, it's an e-book reader, and they call it the
+Kindle to express what it's designed to do to our books.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>That's not true :-)</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>But it does express what it will do with our books. The point is
+this product does surveillance, it forces the user to identify herself
+to buy a book, and Amazon has a list, knows exactly what everybody has
+bought. Then it is also designed to restrict the user, to stop people
+from sharing, from lending books to their friends, from selling them
+to a used bookstore, and various things that with printed books we can
+lawfully do. Even worse, it has a back door, that is Amazon can send
+commands remotely and do things to you, we found out about this a few
+months ago.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Do what to you?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well Amazon sent a command to all the Kindles, ordering them to
+erase all copies of a particular book, namely <cite>1984</cite> by
+George Orwell. Somebody said that they had burned up the year's
+supply of irony by choosing that book. So now we know Amazon can
+remotely erase your books. Now Amazon, after doing this, promised it
+would never do that again, but our freedom to keep a book for as long
+as we want, and read it as many times as we want, should not be
+dependent on any company's goodwill.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Where do you get your books from?</dd>
+
+<dt>[36:13]<br />
+RMS</dt>
+<dd>I buy books from bookstores, yes I go to a store and I say
+“I want that one”.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>And you hand money over for it? Even though you think that that's
+not particularly a good system?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>Well I didn't say that's a bad system.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>Well aren't you handing money over to the corporates rather than
+the author?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>To a large extent yes, but I'm not going to refuse to buy just
+because of that, with books actually typically some of the authors do
+get some money. With academic textbooks they generally don't.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>As a matter of interest we've been talking about freedoms,
+surveillance and digital monitoring, does the extraordinary rise of
+social networking …</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>I buy CDs of music as well even though in that case I know the
+musicians are not going to get paid, so I'd rather send them some
+money.</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>OK. And do you?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>I wish I could, I don't have a way, so I try to convince people to
+set up the system to make it easy.</dd>
+
+<dt>[37:16]<br />
+KH</dt>
+<dd>I'm sure they're sending us their addresses as you speak. Very
+briefly, the rise of social networking, is that a concern in terms of
+privacy for you?</dd>
+
+<dt>RMS</dt>
+<dd>It is, and I don't use those sites, it's more because I don't have
+time, I'm busy doing other things. I don't think social network sites
+are necessarily bad but they lead people into foolish activities. So
+I think an ethical social network site should warn people, and every
+time you connect to it it should warn you, “anything you post
+here might get known to the public no matter how you set up settings
+about supposed privacy. So if you don't want it published, you
+shouldn't say it here.”</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>That's a nice warning. Thank you, it's very nice to talk to you
+Richard Stallman.</dd>
+
+<dt>[38:08]<br />
+RMS</dt>
+<dd>We didn't even mention ACTA, the secret treaty that New Zealand is
+negotiating to restrict its citizens, and they won't; they tell
+publishers what's in the text that they're working on, but they won't
+tell the public. So the point is that the; many governments,
+including of course the US are conspiring in secret to impose new
+restrictions on us relating to copyright and part of their latest
+propaganda is they call sharing “counterfeiting”.
+<span class="gnun-split"></span>But the
+point is that this treaty will have provisions to restrict the public,
+we think, but they won't tell us. This is called Policy Laundering,
+this general practice; instead of democratically considering a law,
+which means the public gets to know what's being considered, gets to
+talk to the legislators, sees how they voted and so on, in secret they
+negotiate a treaty and then they come back and they say “we
+can't change the treaty and we obviously can't refuse it, so we're all
+now, we've just arranged for our country to be stuck with this
+law.”</dd>
+
+<dt>KH</dt>
+<dd>And we may well look at that law in a couple or three weeks
+time.</dd>
+</dl>
+
+</div><!-- for id="content", starts in the include above -->
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+
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+to <a href="mailto:address@hidden"><address@hidden></a>.</p>
+
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+ We work hard and do our best to provide accurate, good quality
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+Please see the <a
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+
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+
+<p>Transcript Copyright © 2009, 2010 Jim Cheetham.</p>
+
+<p>This transcript is licensed under the
+<a href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/nz/">Creative
+Commons Attribution-NonCommercial NoDerivatives New Zealand</a> license.
+</p>
+
+<!--#include virtual="/server/bottom-notes.html" -->
+
+<p>Updated:
+<!-- timestamp start -->
+$Date: 2013/12/31 07:11:46 $
+<!-- timestamp end -->
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+</div>
+</div>
+</body>
+</html>
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