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Re: [Vrs-development] VRS and SEE/DEE goals

From: Bill Lance
Subject: Re: [Vrs-development] VRS and SEE/DEE goals
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:19:54 -0800 (PST)

--- Tim Terlegård <address@hidden> wrote:
> Why restrict things to "VRS: only run web services
> on local machine" or "SEE: 
> only run web services on the ASP server"? Why not
> have the freedom to choose 
> where the web services will run? Wouldn't that
> result in increased 
> flexibility? If the ASP wants to bill the users,
> fine, SEE could just 
> implement billing on top of VRS.

If SEE was common to both designs, this certainly
would be possible.

> I also guess that both VRS and SEE want replication,
> fault tolerance and 
> other features of distributed systems. Both projects
> want to be able to 
> distribute power and space. Both wants to provide
> security. Both projects' 
> main purpose is to enable the use of webservices in
> a secure and fault 
> tolerant way. I think the projects essentially are
> the same. Where am I wrong?

Well, the biggest difference is the p2p clustering
aspect of the VRS.  That does not exist in SEE/DEE to

However, I think there is no reason at all that the
projects could not merge as they develop if that is
the wish of the developers involved.

> > The system aims for the following goals:
> >
> >
> > * To allow a user complete control over the
> content
> > and access to personal data as webservices
> An ASP doesn't fit very well here, I realize that.
> But it says "allow", so I 
> guess the VRS will allow private data to be stored
> on a central server. That 
> is, VRS can be used by an ASP?

I think it certainly could be, if the ASP provided the
bandwitdh and presence that would be of value to the
individual LDS owner.  In this case, the ASP would act
as Cluster Admin, and the LDS node owner could log on
as needed.  The ASP would essentially be renting
computer resources, not controlling the data or

> As I said, my english is not perfect, but I'd prefer
> something like "Allowing 
> users to have complete control over the content and
> access to personal data. 
> Access to the content is achieved by using web
> services.".
> Does it explicitly have to be _web_ services? Isn't
> just services enough? 

There has been a lot of earlier discussion a while ago
about the scope of the term 'web services'.  The
dotGNU threads have interpreted it very broadly.  It
includes for our purposes not only component RPC type
calls like SOAP and J2EE, but also more traditional
protocols such as http, and dynamic cgi scrippted web
pages.  There is a great deal of functional overlap
amoung all these specific protocols.  

> me, web services are handled by a web server. Why
> enforce a web server? In 
> VRS you can't use Corba for calling a service? Maybe
> only XML-RPC will be 
> used, but a design that allows any protocol,
> wouldn't that be nice? What if 
> one find that XML is shit and one wants to use Corba
> instead?

That's exactly what I have in mind.  The protocols are
plugins that layer over the functional parts.  I think
this may be anohter area where VRS and SEE thinking
have differed.  

> > * To maximize reliable availability of webservices
> What's "reliable availability"? I'd say "Maximizing
> reliability and 
> availability of webservices."

That's good

. By the way, is it
> webservice, Webservice or 
> Web Service?

:(   depends on my mood, I guess.   I don't know.

> > * To maximize the security and privacy of data.
> I'd say "Maximizing security, i.e. providing
> non-repudiation and privacy and 
> authenticity of the data residing in the VRS
> system."

Humm ..  I'm not sure that we want to do that in the
infrastructure.  Although authintication services may
certainly be an offered service.

> > * To provide choice of participation and service
> > selection
> I'm not sure what kind of participation is meant,
> but I guess it's about 
> being a part of a cluster, providing computer power?


> Honestly, I don't know 
> what you mean by "service selection" either  :/

Being about to select which Cluster to join, I

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