Re: [Tinycc-devel] Using tinycc for full source bootstrapping

[Michael B. Smith]

As I read your comments, especially these:

>> I would find it awesome if tinycc would restrict its source to C89.
>
> 2017 - 1989 = 28.
>
> Twenty-Eight Years. It would be kinda nice to move forward. Will we stick to 
> C89 simply because of certain platforms that may never move forward? It's 
> kinda like tying stones to one's legs. Or a lowest common denominator 
> scenario.

You were suggesting to abandon the "old" or "legacy" support.

If I misunderstood, please forgive me.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tinycc-devel [mailto:address@hidden On Behalf Of KHMan
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 10:18 PM
To: address@hidden
Subject: Re: [Tinycc-devel] Using tinycc for full source bootstrapping

On 9/27/2017 9:54 AM, Michael B. Smith wrote:
> You funny.
>
> I've still got hundreds of thousands of lines of C in K&R C. In production. 
> Supporting major applications.
>
> You are obviously one of those people who thinks that COBOL is ancient and 
> unused, aren't you?
>
> Because I've got millions of production LOC in COBOL.
>
> No offense, but I don't think you understand the real world.

Please look at this line from Rune:
"Compilers written in C89 and understanding C99 hardly exist."

This implies that his intention is to get C99 via a C89 route.

If his ending point is a C99 capable tcc and natively hosted, then it has 
nothing to do with any amount of legacy code, which can continue to use legacy 
compilers. I say certain platforms may never move forward because in those 
cases we are usually at the mercy of proprietary compilers and the companies 
that make them.

We are not talking about a C89 end point here. C89 folks continue to use their 
stuff, I'm sure it will be in use past 2100. No problem with that. tcc was 
already using // comments with nary an outcry for like ages. When was it ever a 
problem? The only problem this time is that someone wants to bootstrap without 
any tiny bit of any kind of cross compiling variations.

No offense, but I don't think I have been out of line.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tinycc-devel On Behalf Of KHMan
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:41 PM
> To: address@hidden
> Subject: Re: [Tinycc-devel] Using tinycc for full source bootstrapping
>
> On 9/27/2017 5:30 AM, address@hidden wrote:
>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 07:40:32PM +0200, grischka wrote:
>>> Also as source tcc is supposed to be C89, except maybe 'long long'
>>> and maybe some minor things here or there which we could change 
>>> indeed if that is wanted (for example usage of compound initializers 
>>> in arm-gen.c)
>>
>> [not a tinycc developer but using / depending on compiler 
>> bootstrapping]
>>
>> I would find it awesome if tinycc would restrict its source to C89.
>
> 2017 - 1989 = 28.
>
> Twenty-Eight Years. It would be kinda nice to move forward. Will we stick to 
> C89 simply because of certain platforms that may never move forward? It's 
> kinda like tying stones to one's legs. Or a lowest common denominator 
> scenario.
>
>> Compilers written in C89 and understanding C99 hardly exist. This 
>> makes it hard to do a proper bootstrap from the ground with minimal 
>> dependency on existing binaries.
>
> Could you give an example/examples where the starting point for a 
> bootstrap is C89 for the foreseeable future? (Not trying to be a 
> nitpick pest, but actual data points are usually a good thing, and tcc 
> supports only a few processors, so it would be nice to know which one 
> and what platform, or is it some future thing.)
>
> I like Larry's posting. Item 1 can also be done by text processing.
>
> Or make a minimally functioning tcc C89 branch.
>
> Or bootstrap it the Pascal P4 way.
>
>> (Offtopic, but tightly related to the full bootstrapping: if tcc 
>> would also become relicensed to BSD-alike, this would not only make 
>> such deep bootstrapping easier but also allow getting to C99 without 
>> relying on GPL, which matters to some people and scenarios)
>>
>> Thanks for your work on tcc,
>> Rune


--
Cheers,
Kein-Hong Man (esq.)
Selangor, Malaysia


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