Re: [Virtio-fs] [RFC 2/2] vhost-user-fs: Implement stateful migration

[Anton Kuchin]

On 20/03/2023 11:33, Hanna Czenczek wrote:
> On 17.03.23 19:37, Anton Kuchin wrote:
> > On 17/03/2023 19:52, Hanna Czenczek wrote:
> > > On 17.03.23 18:19, Anton Kuchin wrote:
> > > > On 13/03/2023 19:48, Hanna Czenczek wrote:
> > > > > A virtio-fs device's VM state consists of:
> > > > > - the virtio device (vring) state (VMSTATE_VIRTIO_DEVICE)
> > > > > - the back-end's (virtiofsd's) internal state
> > > > >
> > > > > We get/set the latter via the new vhost-user operations 
> > > > > FS_SET_STATE_FD,
> > > > > FS_GET_STATE, and FS_SET_STATE.
>
> [...]
>
> > > > >   static const VMStateDescription vuf_vmstate = {
> > > > >       .name = "vhost-user-fs",
> > > > > -    .unmigratable = 1,
> > > > > +    .version_id = 1,
> > > > > +    .fields = (VMStateField[]) {
> > > > > +        VMSTATE_VIRTIO_DEVICE,
> > > > > +        {
> > > > > +            .name = "back-end",
> > > > > +            .info = &(const VMStateInfo) {
> > > > > +                .name = "virtio-fs back-end state",
> > > > > +                .get = vuf_load_state,
> > > > > +                .put = vuf_save_state,
> > > > > +            },
> > > > > +        },
> > > >
> > > > I've been working on stateless migration patch [1] and there was 
> > > > discussed that we
> > > > need to keep some kind of blocker by default if orchestrators rely 
> > > > on unmigratable
> > > > field in virtio-fs vmstate to block the migration.
> > > > For this purpose I've implemented flag that selects "none" or 
> > > > "external" and is checked
> > > > in pre_save, so it could be extended with "internal" option.
> > > > We didn't come to conclusion if we also need to check incoming 
> > > > migration, the discussion
> > > > has stopped for a while but I'm going back to it now.
> > > >
> > > > I would appreciate if you have time to take a look at the 
> > > > discussion and consider the idea
> > > > proposed there to store internal state as a subsection of vmstate 
> > > > to make it as an option
> > > > but not mandatory.
> > > >
> > > > [1] 
> > > > https://patchew.org/QEMU/20230217170038.1273710-1-antonkuchin@yandex-team.ru/
> > >
> > > So far I’ve mostly considered these issues orthogonal.  If your 
> > > stateless migration goes in first, then state is optional and I’ll 
> > > adjust this series.
> > > If stateful migration goes in first, then your series can simply 
> > > make state optional by introducing the external option, no?
> >
> > Not really. State can be easily extended by subsections but not 
> > trimmed. Maybe this can be worked around by defining two types of 
> > vmstate and selecting the correct one at migration, but I'm not sure.
>
> I thought your patch included a switch on the vhost-user-fs device (on 
> the qemu side) to tell qemu what migration data to expect. Can we not 
> transfer a 0-length state for 'external', and assert this on the 
> destination side?

Looks like I really need to make the description of my patch and the 
documentation more clear :) My patch proposes switch on _source_ side to 
select which data to save in the stream mostly to protect old 
orchestrators that don't expect virtio-fs to be migratable (and for 
internal case it can be extended to select if qemu needs to request 
state from backend), Michael insists that we also need to check on 
destination but I disagree because I believe that we can figure this out 
from stream data without additional device flags.

> > > But maybe we could also consider making stateless migration a 
> > > special case of stateful migration; if we had stateful migration, 
> > > can’t we just implement stateless migration by telling virtiofsd 
> > > that it should submit a special “I have no state” pseudo-state, i.e. 
> > > by having a switch on virtiofsd instead?
> >
> > Sure. Backend can send empty state (as your patch treats 0 length as 
> > a valid response and not error) or dummy state that can be recognized 
> > as stateless. The only potential problem is that then we need support 
> > in backend for new commands even to return dummy state, and if 
> > backend can support both types then we'll need some switch in backend 
> > to reply with real or empty state.
>
> Yes, exactly.
>
> > > Off the top of my head, some downsides of that approach would be
> > > (1) it’d need a switch on the virtiofsd side, not on the qemu side 
> > > (not sure if that’s a downside, but a difference for sure),
> >
> > Why would you? It seems to me that this affects only how qemu treats 
> > the vmstate of device. If the state was requested backend sends it to 
> > qemu. If state subsection is present in stream qemu sends it to the 
> > backend for loading. Stateless one just doesn't request state from 
> > the backend. Or am I missing something?
> >
> > > and (2) we’d need at least some support for this on the virtiofsd 
> > > side, i.e. practically can’t come quicker than stateful migration 
> > > support.
> >
> > Not much, essentially this is just a reconnect. I've sent a draft of 
> > a reconnect patch for old C-virtiofsd, for rust version it takes much 
> > longer because I'm learning rust and I'm not really good at it yet.
>
> I meant these two downsides not for your proposal, but instead if we 
> implemented stateless migration only in the back-end; i.e. the 
> front-end would only implement stateful migration, and the back-end 
> would send and accept an empty state.
>
> Then, qemu would always request a “state” (even if it turns out empty 
> for stateless migration), and qemu would always treat it the same, so 
> there wouldn’t be a switch on the qemu side, but only on the virtiofsd 
> side.  Doesn’t really matter, but what does matter is that we’d need 
> to implement the migration interface in virtiofsd, even if in the end 
> no state is transferred.
>
> So exactly what you’ve said above (“The only potential problem is 
> […]”). :)
>
> Hanna

Oh, yes, we were talking about the same thing. So do you agree that 
storing internal state data in subsection will allow backend code to be 
more straightforward without additional switches?