Re: [Qemu-devel] [virtio-dev] RE: [PATCH v3 6/6] vhost-user: support registering external host notifiers

[Liang, Cunming]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael S. Tsirkin [mailto:address@hidden
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 11:19 PM
> To: Paolo Bonzini <address@hidden>
> Cc: Liang, Cunming <address@hidden>; Bie, Tiwei <address@hidden>;
> address@hidden; address@hidden; address@hidden;
> address@hidden; address@hidden; Daly, Dan
> <address@hidden>; Tan, Jianfeng <address@hidden>; Wang, Zhihong
> <address@hidden>; Wang, Xiao W <address@hidden>
> Subject: Re: [virtio-dev] RE: [PATCH v3 6/6] vhost-user: support registering
> external host notifiers
> 
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 03:02:40PM +0200, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
> > On 19/04/2018 14:43, Liang, Cunming wrote:
> > >> 2. Memory barriers. Right now after updating the avail idx, virtio
> > >> does smp_wmb() and then the MMIO write. Normal hardware drivers do
> > >> wmb() which is an sfence. Can a PCI device read bypass index write
> > >> and see a stale index value?
> > >
> > > A compiler barrier is enough on strongly-ordered memory platform. As
> > > it doesn't re-order store, PCI device won't see a stale index value.
> > > But a weakly-ordered memory needs sfence.
> >
> > That is complicated then.  We need to define a feature bit and (in the
> > Linux driver) propagate it to vring_create_virtqueue's weak_barrier
> > argument.  However:
> >
> > - if we make it 1 when weak barriers are needed, the device also needs
> > to nack feature negotiation (not allow setting the FEATURES_OK) if the
> > bit is not set by the driver.
> >  However, that is not enough.  Live
> > migration assumes that it is okay to migrate a virtual machine from a
> > source that doesn't support a feature to a destination that supports it.
> >  In this case, it would assume that it is okay to migrate from
> > software virtio to hardware virtio.  This is wrong because the
> > destination would use weak barriers
> 
> You can't migrate between systems with different sets of device features right
> now.
> 
> > - if we make it 1 when strong barriers are enough, software virtio
> > devices needs to be updated to expose the bit.  This works, including
> > live migration, but updated drivers will now go slower when run
> > against an old device that doesn't know the feature bit.
> >
> > Maybe bump the PCI revision, so that only the new revision has the bit?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Paolo
> 
> As a first step, if you want to migrate to a HW offloaded solution then you 
> need
> to enable the feature.

> It does mean it will go a bit slower when run with software,
> so it's only good if most systems in your cluster do have the HW offload.
To clarify a bit more, it's suboptimal to always use mandatory barriers for 
MMIO. Per strongly-order memory, 'weak barriers' (smp_wmb) is pretty good for 
MMIO. The tradeoff doesn't always happen, software and HW offload can align on 
the same page.

> I think we can start by getting that working and think about ways to improve
> down the road.
> 
> 
> That's the usecase we designed FEATURES_OK for though, so I do think/hope it's
> enough and we don't need to play with revisions.
> 
> 
> --
> MST