Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Flight Plan for Soaring

[Marc Schwarzbach]

Hi Eric,

somewhere down here we agreed that an implementation on the Tiny type system 
would be the goal to have more people benefit from that.

Piggy back systems are very nice but far from standard and also more 
expensive... 

So the simple onboard or moe complx ground based solution would be the goal for 
now.
And I think the ground based solution could be easily portable to Overo.

Btw. I looked into the code of "xcsoar". Could be a start!

Cheers

Marc


-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 00:42:21 +1030
> Von: Eric Parsonage <address@hidden>
> An: address@hidden
> Betreff: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Flight Plan for Soaring

> Hi,
> 
> Did you guys consider using Lisa/L using the piggy back overo for your
> calculations ?
> 
> Eric
> 
> On 28/02/2011, at 10:05 PM, Todd Sandercock wrote:
> 
> > Would be easier to just process data on the ground. The Ivy bus is
> wonderful for such things
> > 
> > Set up the circle and then just move the waypoint toward the centre of
> the thermal.
> > 
> > An idea I had was to add an Ivy bus injection to the open source
> software "xcsoar". It would be a good way to visualise the soaring flight and 
> also
> it does a lot of the calcs required..
> > 
> > From: Marc Schwarzbach <address@hidden>
> > To: address@hidden
> > Sent: Mon, 28 February, 2011 9:36:41 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Flight Plan for Soaring
> > 
> > That would solve the problem, for sure...
> > 
> > But I would like an "elegant" solution which could just be uploaded to
> my existing planes. Very few people have additional processors availible. So
> finding a solution for the exsting systems could be used by a much huger
> group.
> > 
> > One Idea:
> > Use a group of, let´s say 100 invisible waypoints to store vz in the
> altitude value of these and use this database for calculations of thermal
> centers.
> > 
> > Marc
> > 
> > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > > Datum: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 02:54:31 -0800 (PST)
> > > Von: Todd Sandercock <address@hidden>
> > > An: address@hidden
> > > Betreff: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Flight Plan for Soaring
> > 
> > > I was thinking a piggyback processor telling the Tiny what to do...
> Also
> > > the 
> > > piggyback processor could be collecting better air data (total energy
> > > vario) to 
> > > make better centring decisions.
> > > 
> > > Todd
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Marc Schwarzbach <address@hidden>
> > > To: address@hidden
> > > Sent: Mon, 28 February, 2011 8:37:58 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Flight Plan for Soaring
> > > 
> > > Hi Reto,
> > > 
> > > I also thought about the idea of soaring with paparazzi.
> > > The Papers mentioned are quite good.
> > > 
> > > The problem I ran into is that you have to keep the thermal field data
> > > somewhere 
> > > in a memory to calculate the center of the thermal. On a desktop, it
> is
> > > not a 
> > > problem. The limited memory onboard is not enough for this method.
> > > 
> > > So I see two solutions (for the current Tiny autopilots):
> > > -Process the Information in the ground control PC (like it´s done
> with
> > > the wind 
> > > estimation at the moment, which was probably done for the same
> reason).
> > > -Develop a new algorythm which works on the limitied power and memory
> of
> > > the 
> > > autopilot (would be cool and worth a publication :-)
> > > 
> > > Please keep us posted and ask if there are problems.
> > > There seem to be some people interested...
> > > 
> > > Cheers
> > > 
> > > Marc
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> > > > Datum: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 09:24:53 +0100
> > > > Von: "Reto Büttner" <address@hidden>
> > > > An: address@hidden
> > > > Betreff: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Flight Plan for Soaring
> > > 
> > > > Hi Todd,
> > > > 
> > > > thanks for the hints.
> > > > 
> > > > I actually am a full scale glider pilot myself as well. So I
> > > > understand the techniques of soaring thoroughly. The challenge is to
> > > > get this into paparazzi as simple as possible.
> > > > 
> > > > Dan Edwards has done a brilliant job in autonomous soaring:
> > > > http://goosetech.homelinux.com/soaring/index.php
> > > > Unfortunately he used piccolo of cloudcap, not paparazzi :-(
> > > > 
> > > > I am still open to any paparazzi flight plan details!
> > > > 
> > > > Cheers, Reto
> > > > 
> > > > 2011/2/28 Todd Sandercock <address@hidden>:
> > > > > As a glider pilot I will say now that there is a lot more to
> soaring
> > > > than
> > > > > just turning in an updraft.... You may want to do some research
> into
> > > > thermal
> > > > > centring techniques first. This link is a pretty good
> > > > >
> > > >start:
> > >
> http://jesuscondorbase.blogspot.com/2010/11/thermaling-pt2-centering-techniques.html
> > > >l
> > > > > Also there  is a couple of papers floating around the internet
> from
> > > > NASA
> > > > > where the experiment with autonomous soaring. Very good
> > > > >
> > > > reference:
> http://dtrs.dfrc.nasa.gov/archive/00001620/01/214611-REV1.pdf
> > > > > This is just a start....
> > > > > Todd
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Reto Büttner <address@hidden>
> > > > > To: address@hidden
> > > > > Sent: Mon, 28 February, 2011 9:33:22 AM
> > > > > Subject: [Paparazzi-devel] Flight Plan for Soaring
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi guys,
> > > > >
> > > > > for autonomous soaring I want the plane to circle, as long as it
> is in
> > > > > an updraft. Will a statement similar to the following work?
> > > > >
> > > > > <circle radius="50" until="estimator_vz < 0.0" wp="WP"
> throttle="0.0"
> > > > > pitch="-5" vmode="throttle"/>
> > > > >
> > > > > Does the variable estimator_vz exist?
> > > > >
> > > > > Has someone in the paparazzi community already programmed a flight
> > > > > plan for autonomous soaring?
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Reto
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Paparazzi-devel mailing list
> > > > > address@hidden
> > > > > http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Paparazzi-devel mailing list
> > > > > address@hidden
> > > > > http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > 
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