Re: [Nmh-workers] Stanford disliking my emails -- update + question

[Bob Carragher]

Thanks for performing this experiment, Andy!

I received 2 copies.  The header for the first one that reached
GMail showed that it was the one sent to your local alias:

     [...]
     Received: from edoras.bradfordfamily.org (edoras.bradfordfamily.org. 
[166.70.45.18])
             by mx.google.com with SMTP id 
p5si19505403par.19.2015.04.24.16.31.00
             for <address@hidden>;
             Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:31:01 -0700 (PDT)
     [...]
     Received: (qmail 3883 invoked by uid 1000); 24 Apr 2015 23:30:59 -0000
     Delivered-To: address@hidden
     Received: (qmail 25654 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2015 23:30:59 -0000
     [...]

The header from the second one shows that it was delivered directly
to my GMail account, and didn't go via the mailing list:

     [...]
     Delivered-To: address@hidden
     Received: from edoras.bradfordfamily.org (edoras.bradfordfamily.org. 
[166.70.45.18])
             by mx.google.com with SMTP id 
zb14si19432603pac.209.2015.04.24.16.31.00
             for <address@hidden>;
             Fri, 24 Apr 2015 16:31:01 -0700 (PDT)
     Received: (qmail 3579 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2015 23:30:59 -0000
     [...]

My Spam folder is empty (and never saw any email).

I also really dislike this behavior, where MLMs do not send a
copy if a member is explicitly specified as a recipient in the
header -- for all the reasons cited.  I too think it's wrong.

                                Bob

P.S.  Sorry to poke a fire that's out, but I really like Andy's
left-and-right-justified text.  (It helps that there aren't any
really "space"-y lines.  B-)  That's because I often play a
similar game with myself, trying to compose my message using
words and phrases that allow the right margin to line up.  B-)

> From:     "Andy Bradford" <address@hidden>
> To:       "Bob Carragher" <address@hidden>
> Date:     24 Apr 2015 17:30:58 -0600
> Subject:  Re: [Nmh-workers] Stanford disliking my emails -- update + question
> Cc:       address@hidden, "Bob Carragher" <address@hidden>
> 
> Thus said Bob Carragher on Fri, 24 Apr 2015 15:46:15 -0700:
> 
> > Is it really GMail that's doing this?
> 
> I recall experimenting  with Gmail many years ago and  at the time, they
> did  ``duplicate  removal''  based  on perhaps  the  Message-ID.  As  an
> experiment, I have added a local alias here which forwards to your Gmail
> account and which is not subscribed to  the list server. You may have to
> check your Spam folder for it, but will  you let me know if you get 1, 2
> or 3  copies? If  you get  just one,  then this  confirms that  Gmail is
> removing duplicates (as  I suspect it has been doing  for years, and for
> which reason  I stopped using Gmail).  If you get 2,  the headers should
> reveal  which route  those 2  messages took  and if  they are  both from
> non-MLM deliveries, then the mailing list  is deciding not to send you a
> message.
> 
> I actually believe  this behavior is wrong in an  MLM---how does it know
> that the  message was delivered successfully?  In your case, it  took 33
> hours for  you to get the  message, however, had the  MLM just performed
> the basic forwarding service it should have been designed to do, you may
> have actually received it much more quicker; sure, you may have received
> 2 copies, but I  think that's a better experience than  a 33 hour single
> delivery.
> 
> > Or  is  it the  list  server,  seeing that  one  of  the list's  email
> > addresses is in the header, deciding not to send a (duplicate) copy to
> > it?
> 
> Some MLMs do this, I'm not sure if  this one does, but we may be able to
> find out with the little experiment above.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Andy
> -- 
> TAI64 timestamp: 40000000553ad255