Re: LYNX-DEV News:*

[Klaus Weide]

On Sat, 16 Aug 1997, Foteos Macrides wrote:

> David Woolley <address@hidden> wrote:
> >> >  If the LIST or LIST ACTIVE command were used, then in parsing
> >> > that reply an XGTITLE request could be issued for each group, but you
> >> > can't count on Xfoo commands being supported by all nntp servers (that
> >
> >XGTITLE is being replaced by LIST NEWSGROUPS pattern, although it may well
> >be retained for a long time for backwards compatibility.  Either way,
> >it doesn't have an RFC to back it up (unless the common NNTP extensions
> >document got made into an RFC).
> 
>       I've been using the currently active IETF ID:
> 
>   http://info.internet.isi.edu/in-drafts/files/draft-barber-nntp-imp-07.txt
> 
> 
> >> > one probably is by now), and it would be a lot more overhead.  It would
> >
> >I would definitely agree here.  It is unlikely that the server will do
> >anything other than a complete scan of the file.  In the worst case,
> >assuming a relatively complete active file and 20,000 newsgroups,
> >that's 10,000 * 20,000 * 70 (assuming 70 character lines) character
> >manipulations, or 14,000,000,000 operations.  The instruction count is
> >even more than this!
> 
>       Klaus' suggestion was to use XGTITLE in the first place, and
> that was a good idea, which I've implemented, but with the old procedure
> as a fallback if the XGTITLE fails.

Well at least it doesn't change anything regarding the "pester your
sysadmin" requirement, neither for better nor for worse :)  -- assuming
that LIST NEWSGROUPS and XGTITLE use the same file or database on the
server.

> >> > be better to pester the sysadmin to arrange for the LIST NEWSGROUPS to
> >> > return valid information, rather than accepting that some hoaky procedure
> >> > for reading a file that isn't maintained such that it's contents contain
> >> > what would be a valid reply is OK. :)
> >
> >I don't think I agree here.  The set of newsgroups encountered in articles
> >generally exceeds the set of groups subscribed to by a server, because of
> >cross-posting.  Better newsreaders use the newsgroups list to provide
> >feedback that a followup really is going to relevant newsgroups (shot
> >gun posting is a problem, these days - that is people who post to lots
> >of newsgroups in the hope that they will hit one from which they will
> >get a reply, whether or not it is on topic).
> 
>       The specs say that LIST NEWSGROUPS should return that for
> the server's *active* groups, not all groups:
> 
> [...]
> 2.1.6 LIST NEWSGROUPS
> 
>     LIST NEWSGROUPS [wildmat]
> 
>     The newsgroups file is maintained by some news transport
>     systems to contain the name of each news group which is
>     active on the server and a short description about the
>     ^^^^^^
>     purpose of each news group. Each line in the file contains
>     two fields, the news group name and a short explanation of
>     the purpose of that news group. [...]
> 
> 
> The wildmat (foo*) argument option is proposed so that LIST NEWGROUPS
> will fully encompass XGTITLE.

The draft may contradict reality, though.  It wouldn't be the first
time...

I have set up an INN server locally, purely for testing (without any
newsfeeds), a while ago.  It seems that I have a default newsgroups
file listing thousands of groups (and that is what LIST NEWSGROUPS and
XGTITLE return) when actually only a handful (like local.test) are
available.  (I may have messed something up when I installed, or not
followed all the necessary steps, or even copied the file manually,
all of which I don't remember now, so don't take this as evidence that
this is the INN default.)

I made some tweaks to HTNews.c, see the devel code, based on limited
testing.  Note that (in my experience) a server always closes the
connection after a 502 response following failed authentication.  So
the three retries logic in your HTHandleAuthInfo basically didn't
work, since the 2nd and 3rd attempt would just try to write to an
already closed socket.

  Klaus
     

;
; To UNSUBSCRIBE:  Send a mail message to address@hidden
;                  with "unsubscribe lynx-dev" (without the
;                  quotation marks) on a line by itself.
;