Re: LYNX-DEV -color/-nocolor development confusion

[Foteos Macrides]

Klaus Weide <address@hidden> wrote:
>On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Foteos Macrides wrote:
>> Klaus Weide <address@hidden> wrote:
>[ snipped repetition ]
>> 
>>      The fotemods code presently offers internal color support only
>> via the slang library.  The "show color (&)" option appears in the
>> 'o'ptions menu only if the image was built with slang.  It can be
>> saved to a .lynxrc file only if the image was built with slang, and
>> the account is not anonymous.
>
>It should be obvious that we are talking about lynx built with slang,
>as far as the fotemods code is concerned, since otherwise there is no
>color support.

        Yes, it should be obvious, but your earlier message didn't
appear to be taking that into account.


>                 Also I am not concerned about anonymous users here.

        Perhaps not, but you should be concerned about them.


>If this is meant to address what I wrote:
>
>> >The setting "can be saved" == "it *will* be saved" when a user with this 
>> >code
>> >presses '>' on the Options Screen - whether the user has changed it or not,
>> >whether the user is aware of it or not, whether it is appropriate or not.
>
>Then let me amend that to:
>
>   The setting "can be saved" == "it *will* be saved" when a non-anonymous
>   user with this code compiled with slang 
>   presses '>' on the Options Screen - whether the user has changed it or not,
>   whether the user is aware of it or not, whether it is appropriate or not.
>
>Still wrong?

        That amendment is correct.  We might not agree on what is
"appropriate" though.  I am definitely out of step with a now substantial
part of the Lynx User Community on the level of understand about Lynx, HTML
and HTTP they should be expected to acquire in exchange for making Lynx
available to them.


>> It no show_color:on is in the .lynxrc
>> file, and the image was built with slang, it comes up off unless
>> the -color switch was used or the COLORTERM enviroment variable is
>> set.  
>
>That is, it comes up displayed as "OFF" even when color is being
>used, if the terminal type is recognized by slang as supporting color,
>even if neither -color nor COLORTERM was used.

        Thank you for providing a non-lacking bug report about that.
It's fixed in tonight's update.


>>> If show_color:off is in the .lynxrc file, that's the default
>>> anyway, and will be overridden if the -color switch is used or the
>>> COLORTERM enviroment variable is set.  To the extent I've exercized
>> yesterday's fotemods, when I use an image built with slang and invoke
>> the 'o'ption menu the "show color (&)" value (ON or OFF) accurately
>> reflects whether it's on or off, and does toggle that successfully.
>
>It seems that in all this you are not considering the situation where
>slang is using color because the terminal type is recognized by slang 
>as supporting color, by virtue of the terminfo capabilities, without
>using -color or COLORTERM.  What is a saved show_color:off supposed
>to do in this situation?
>
>> Most of your claims above are false.  For example, when invoked in
>> an anonymous account, '>' is a dead key, and information on how to
>> save options is omitted from the instruction line.  
>
>I did not claim anything specifically about anonymous accounts.
>I should have explicitly mentioned that they are exempt from this,
>but I was not aware of it.  But anonymous accounts are not the only
>situation where saving this setting would be inappropriate.
>
>> We are all
>> capable of creating our own bugs just fine, and if there really are
>> any bugs in yesterday's fotemods, hopefully I'll detect them or someone
>> will report them, so that they can be corrected.
>
>Here is my specific report, again.  To make it clear, this is still
>happening with the 1997-07-21 fotemods code.  Lynx comes up with
>color.
>
>> >   #                    No saved color setting in .lynxrc
>> >   unset COLORTERM
>> >   TERM=linux lynx .  # a TERM which supports color
>> >   'O'ptions          # show color falsely shown as OFF (!)
>> >   '&'
>> >   RETURN             # immediately, without change
>> >                      # show color still falsely shown as OFF
>> >   '&'                # again
>> >   RETURN             # again immediately, without change
>> >After this, color use is turned off but without a screen refresh.
>> >It makes a mess of the screen if colors with non-default bachgrounds
>> >(the default colors) are used.
>
>Have you actually tried it and verified that this is a "false claim"?
>
>>      I'd been checking all morning and afternoon for -38 to show
>> up at the update page, and finally it has.  I built it on Scott's
>> solaris, and the statusline glitch when using a non-color terminal
>> appears to be corrected.  However, when connected via a v220 emulator,
>> if I invoke the 'o'ptions menu the "show color (&)" claims ON, though
>> it should be OFF, and when I toggle it, nothing seems to happen. (I
>> hope this bug report is not lacking. :).
>
>It lacks the info whether you have built with curses, ncurse, or slang.
>But I observe the same with ncurses and vt100.

        My indent is that color support will be turned on if the
-color switch is used, if the COLORTERM enviroment variable is set,
or if slang's SLtt_get_terminfo() decides that this is a color-capable
terminal, even if show_color=off is in the .lynxrc file.  It is also
my intent that users with personal accounts, but not necessarily shell
accounts, and not necessarily able to include the -color switch or
to get a sysadmin to fix up a bad terminfo/termlib entry for their
most frequently used terminal, be able to save show_color=on in
their .lynxrc file, and have that act like the -color switch. That
means that if, on occassion, they connect with a non-color terminal,
they must invoke the 'o'ptions menu and set "show color (&)" OFF.
Conversely, if on some occassion they inadvertantly end up saving
show_color=on in their .lynxrc and normally connect with a non-color
terminal, they must acquire sufficient understanding of how Lynx works
to know that they should invoke the 'o'ptions menu to set and save it
back to show_color=off.  It is also my intent that for anonymous accounts,
the default "off unless SLtt_get_terminfo() thinks it should be on"
behavior be retained, that when it's wrong about the user not having
a color-capable terminal they simply invoke the 'o'ptions menu and
turn it on, but that they not be able to save that setting, and thus
change the "off unless SLtt_get_terminfo() thinks it should be on"
behavior for other anonymous users.  I think those intentions are
realized in tonight's update, but if not, non-lacking bug reports are
welcome.

                                Fote

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 Foteos Macrides            Worcester Foundation for Biomedical Research
 address@hidden         222 Maple Avenue, Shrewsbury, MA 01545
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