Re: Suggestion to make sharps and flats persistent

[David Wright]

On Thu 14 May 2020 at 10:38:59 (+0200), Hans Åberg wrote:
> > On 14 May 2020, at 03:38, David Wright <address@hidden> wrote:
> > 
> > I can't say that I've met
> > English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B.
> > Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and orchestral
> > players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German music?
> 
> In general, there is a divide in musical notation in Europe, one is Germany, 
> and to the north and south and east, and the other, the countries to the 
> west, France, England, etc.
> 
> One difference is the note names, H and B in the Germanic tradition [1], and 
> J.S. Bach used it [2].

Thank you, very useful.

On Thu 14 May 2020 at 07:45:23 (-0500), David Nalesnik wrote:
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 8:39 PM David Wright <address@hidden> wrote:
> > On Wed 13 May 2020 at 16:35:48 (-0500), David Nalesnik wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 3:34 PM antlists <address@hidden> wrote:
> > > > On 13/05/2020 16:38, David Kastrup wrote:
> > > > > Given the number of English-speaking LilyPond users who all share the
> > > > > somewhat strange habit of calling a b-flat "b" if there is a flat in 
> > > > > the
> > > > > key signature, it is sort of a safe bet that you are not the first to
> > > > > make this kind of proposal.
> > > >
> > > > Are these the same ones who call b an h?
> > > >
> > > > Certainly for someone who's mother tongue is English (NOT American) I'd
> > > > never call b-flat a b because how would I tell whether it's flat or not 
> > > > :-)
> > >
> > > ! hear it a lot in the US.  (And it's often correlated with losing
> > > sight of the key signature...)
> >
> > Assuming ! stands for "I" and not negation, I can't say that I've met
> > English speakers in either the UK or US who use b and h for Bflat and B.
> > Under what circumstances do you hear it: amateur choirs and orchestral
> > players, professionals, or in academic duscussions of German music?
> 
> Hi David Wright,
> 
> Once again the name "David" rears its head!  You are mixing my
> response with David Kastrup's

I think I would have as much difficulty doing that as my email client would.

AIUI David Kastrup lives in Germany, in b/h land, but without any
context, I don't know whether this meant that he thought
English-speaking LilyPond users were steeped in the Germanic
tradition, or just being polite¹, confused², confusing³, or
just plain incompetent (perhaps implied by "strange habit").

Wol gave these "b" people the benefit of the doubt as being "b/h"
people (but why was the American tongue mentioned?).

When you, David Nalesnik, wrote "! hear it a lot in the US",
I wondered where, specifically. I think the main difference
over here is note and rest lengths. As you might gather from
the combination of my email domain and my timezone (and yours),
I take an interest in such differences, even if only as
post-rehearsal pub-chat⁴.

So I was perplexed by your post about my mixing up your response with
David K's. Perhaps you might explain the referent of "it", if it's
not ‘calling a b-flat "b"’.

¹ When in Rome …
² Accidentally switching between bf/b and b/h inappropriately.
³ Calling notes by staff position without regard to key signature.
⁴ Assuming we sing again and pubs are still in business.

Cheers,
David.