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Re: purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?


From: Aaron Wolf
Subject: Re: purism why does fsf and libreplanet embrace a misleading company?
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2020 07:56:22 -0700

FWIW, I find this reply much more useful, thank you.

I think you would do well to clear out the noise and stick to very
pointed, repeated concerns in order to be heard.

The specific points about signed CPUs and about Librem 5 vagueness in
advertising, just state those first and focus on that. It's much easier
to understand the concerns that way than with the rest of the general
exasperation or accusations.

On 2020-03-14 11:33 a.m., a via libreplanet-discuss wrote:
> On 3/12/20 6:23 PM, Aaron Wolf wrote:
>> It would help if you state (or link) the specific concerns about Purism
>> separately from the judgments. Surely someone has collected the examples
>> so that people can see for themselves. People unfamiliar will not accept
>> an unknown source just leveling accusations.
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20141121173028/http://puri.sm/products/ No
> mention of the fact that all new intel cpus require intel signed
> software to work. No cryptographer believes it is possible to break the
> key.
> 
> https://puri.sm/learn/freedom-roadmap/
> https://libreboot.org/faq.html#will-the-purism-laptops-be-supported
> https://www.crowdsupply.com/purism/librem-15 Go to paragraph What About
> the BIOS and firmware? Google asked for the cpu source software for an
> intel cpu they wanted to use. I think it was a tablet. Google was turned
> down. Surely purism would get it if asking. Did purism purism get it?
> allowing for a future where free software can replace the proprietary,
> digitally signed BIOS binaries No, not possible. Even if you can reverse
> engineer some pieces of cpu software, you cannot install your own
> software because you do not have the private key, which corresponds to
> the public key, which is build into the cpu's hardware.
> 
> If purism did not know the above 2 matters, at the time they were
> incompetent. And from the moment free software people told them, they
> could not claim incompetence being the reason for their inaccurate
> product description.
> 
> https://puri.sm/learn/software-freedom-in-perspective/
> The website is manipulative. The non free software part
> may be the part which hides the backdoor or other
> unwanted features you would want to know about.
> 
> About the librem 5, purism got more clever in
> phrasing their advertisement. Instead of lying they have been
> 
> vague and omitting in their descriptions. There is no free software
> modem. purism should explicitly say that in the description of the
> phone. And tell what might be the implications of a non free software
> modem. Same about the wifi card if it requires non free software.
> 
> https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-solving-the-first-fsf-ryf-hurdle/ No.
> Respect your freedom certification is out of the question if you want
> the modem to run. What about the wifi card?
> 
> 
>>
>> The thread you linked to is more of the same problem. It starts with
>> people saying "fraud" and other accusations and has back and forth about
>> it all. It's not trivial to parse that conversation. If this is as
>> important as you feel it is, please help us out by consolidating the
>> concerns in a way that newcomers to the issue can readily process.
> 
> This matter is difficult. A lot of people probably do not
> understand the matter. And because they want
> a free software computer combined which their lack
> of knowledge they go into defense mode in
> favor of purism, when I and others try to inform
> 
> them. When I first informed fsf my email was not harsh. I soberly
> described the matter and stated my arguments. My email here directed at
> fsf was phrased harshly because fsf is acting in ill faith. Same about
> other people I inform about purism. I only get strict if they do not
> counter my arguments and stubbornly defend purism. fsf knows about
> purism's deceptive practices and still gives him an opertunity to give a
> talk. If purism gives the speech and is not confronted with his lies
> then he can use the video to deceive more people. They trust me dumb ...
> If he gives the speech and is confronted then I have nothing against him
> giving the speech.
> 
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On 2020-03-11 23:46, a via libreplanet-discuss wrote:
>>> This post is directed at officials from libreplanet
>>> and fsf.
>>>
>>> I wrote this post on trisquel's forum. Also available on
>>> https://paste.nolsen.xyz/?98e7462461e8a46c#8YchW86Fn3UvkxdHbfN74cVVoYkFqCGWCx2tWVX5uvZJ
>>> https://libreplanet.org/2020/speakers/#2464
>>> https://www.fsf.org/givingguide/v10/
>>> https://trisquel.info/en/forum/librem13-fully-free-time
>>> In more than one rss, fsf has made favorable comments
>>> about purism and their products.
>>>
>>> It is documented that purism from the beginning has
>>> been either amateurish ignorant or plain liars
>>> about what how free software their products would become. They
>>> have continuously made people believe their
>>> products would stand a change of getting ryf
>>> approval from fsf. I and likely others have emailed fsf
>>> on the matter. No effect.
>>> What is it about fsf? Does it get money or hardware from
>>> purism? It takes one email to libreboot or replicant to
>>> get the facts straight.
>>> If you are a fsf official, then comment on this post.
>>>
>>> When people have mentioned purism products favorable, then
>>> I have told them the above. People have not been able
>>> to counter my arguments. Still almost always, they have
>>> defended purism. How does it look, when you are calling purism
>>> out and at the same time fsf displays approval and
>>> endorsement of purism?
>>>
>>> If fsf thinks it has to mention the librem 5 on its website,
>>> then you are required to tell, how purism have mislead people.
>>>
>>> My understanding is, purism has been allowed to present its
>>> products in the vicinity of libreplanet. A wrong decision. Now
>>> libreplanet has given purism a libreplanet talk. What a peak
>>> of incompetence from libreplanet.
>>> Libreplanet cancel the talk. If you are attending the talk,
>>> then interrupt the talk. Confront the speaker with their
>>> history of misleading people.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> libreplanet-discuss mailing list
>>> address@hidden
>>> https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
>>>
>>
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