Re: [libreplanet-discuss] No, Stallman isn't "nuts" nor does he deserve less freedom of speech

[Leah Rowe]

Stallman single handedly spearheaded the entire free software movement
back in the 80s, and he's still going strong even today, talking at
conferences all over the world. He's a man of great integrity who does
what he says and means what he says.

Meanwhile, Mr. Gates is funding companies like Monsanto who are
destroying the planet. And making the world generally a very depressing
place to live.

Try to put things into perspective, k?

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 11:29:00 +0100
Leah Rowe <info@minifree.org> wrote:

> 
> 
> The TR;DR version of my previous mail is this:
> 
> Without the FSF, we'd be up shit creek. So please everyone grow the
> fuck up and move on, and keep doing wonderful things. This infighting
> helps nobody but our enemies.
> 
> On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 11:19:26 +0100 Leah
> Rowe <info@minifree.org> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I'm unsubscribing from this list. The FSF has been stagnating a lot
> > over the years anyway... though I still respect them, and RMS.
> > 
> > But I don't like all this spam, and most of what goes on this list
> > appears to be spam nowadays :S
> > 
> > Before I do unsubscribe, I'd like to impart some wisdom on you all:
> > 
> > While the FSF and GNU project (and RMS, in spite of his many flaws -
> > hey, we're not perfect. cut the guy some slack OK? he stands by his
> > convictions to the letter, and you have to respect that) are
> > wonderful, they are not the whole movement. My advice: respect
> > organisations like the FSF, but realize they don't operate on their
> > own; the movement is powered by people like *you*. In fact, the FSF
> > in my own personal experience is chronically understaffed and most
> > of their work is done by volunteers... The FSF is what I consider a
> > "thought leader"
> > - more or less like a political party. Thought leaders are great,
> > but you don't get there on thought alone.
> > 
> > Keep writing free software and keep spreading the good word of free
> > software and (more importantly) copyleft. Trivial stuff like this
> > shit with RMS mean nothing in the grand scheme. Just a cranky old
> > man with the best of intentions, saying things now and then that
> > are a bit weird (but I could say the same of anyone).
> > 
> > And keep donating to the FSF. They *do* do excellent work in the
> > community.
> > 
> > I'll leave it at that for today. I might come to future libreplanet
> > conferences still.
> > 
> > On Sun, 15
> > Sep 2019 21:47:26 -0400 Steven Sullam <steve@stevesullam.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > WTF? I became interested in the libre group as a more human
> > > alternative to commercial profit driven technology. I am not
> > > interesed in reading discussions of Richard Stallman's personal
> > > life or the lack of ethics in his personal behavior here.
> > > 
> > > On 9/15/19 8:53 PM, J.B. Nicholson wrote:
> > > > Adrienne G. Thompson wrote:
> > > >> The record on Richard Stallman underscores that he is driven
> > > >> by ethical sensibilities. He's not about to approve of rape
> > > >> anytime soon. So let's just tell rms to shut up about the
> > > >> Epstein matter, not to attempt to
> > > >> defend his idols (some of which I, *personally*, know are not
> > > >> worth defending) and to get a female FSF colleague to censor
> > > >> all his comments pertaining to women before these comments go
> > > >> public.
> > > >
> > > > Or you could choose to not tell him or anyone else to "shut up"
> > > > or accept a censorship regime. And you could also reject virtue 
> > > > signaling, sexism, and identity politics (regarding the "get a
> > > > female FSF colleague"). After all, for all you know he could
> > > > select a woman who doesn't agree with your take and you'll have
> > > > nowhere to go because he met your sexist and identity
> > > > politics-driven request.
> > > >
> > > > You could understand that he too gets freedom of speech to say
> > > > things you don't agree with (that's what freedom of speech is
> > > > for, after all). You could choose to continue to use your
> > > > freedom of speech as you've done while also respecting his.
> > > > Counterspeech seems far more appropriate for this situation
> > > > where Stallman hasn't done anything more wrong than possibly
> > > > hold, share, and change views some others don't like.
> > > >
> > > > His comments across some posts to his personal blog make me
> > > > think I'm getting a poorly-explained half story from others on
> > > > this topic. Considering what he wrote in 
> > > > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Statements_about_Epstein)
> > > >
> > > >> I want to respond to the misleading media coverage of messages
> > > >> I posted about Marvin Minsky's association with Jeffrey
> > > >> Epstein. The coverage totally mischaracterised my statements.
> > > >>
> > > >> Headlines say that I defended Epstein. Nothing could be further
> > > >> from the truth. I've called him a "serial rapist", and said he
> > > >> deserved to be imprisoned. But many people now believe I
> > > >> defended him — and other inaccurate claims — and feel a real
> > > >> hurt because of what they believe I said.
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm sorry for that hurt. I wish I could have prevented the
> > > >> misunderstanding.
> > > > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong)
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong
> > > >> about sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted
> > > >> it.
> > > >>
> > > >> Through personal conversations in recent years, I've learned to
> > > >> understand how sex with a child can harm per psychologically.
> > > >> This changed my mind about the matter: I think adults should
> > > >> not do that. I am grateful for the conversations that enabled
> > > >> me to understand why.
> > > >
> > > > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#13_September_2019_(Epstein_donations)
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Media Lab Director Joi Ito confessed that he had secretly
> > > >> accepted donations from Epstein after MIT had decided not to do
> > > >> so.
> > > >>
> > > >> He also accepted funds for some personal activities of his own.
> > > >>
> > > >> That dishonesty, and conflict of interest, make his resignation
> > > >> obligatory.
> > > >>
> > > >> But I fear for the effect on the Media Lab. Under Negroponte,
> > > >> the lab was notoriously stingy and proprietary. Ito corrected
> > > >> that. I fear that the next director will undo some of Ito's
> > > >> changes.
> > > >
> > > > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#11_August_2019_(Jeffrey_Epstein_committed_suicide)
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Jeffrey Epstein appears to have committed suicide in his cell.
> > > >> Or perhaps he was murdered — it is not unusual for prisoners to
> > > >> murder prisoners accused of sexual crimes.
> > > >>
> > > >> Epstein was accused of trafficking: bringing people long
> > > >> distances on false pretenses and then pressured them into sex
> > > >> or prostitution. He also reportedly raped some of those
> > > >> people. I believe those accusations, and I think he deserved
> > > >> to be imprisoned.
> > > >>
> > > >> Some of his victims were legally adult. Some were teenage
> > > >> minors. I don't think that makes any moral difference. I don't
> > > >> think rape is less wrong if the victim is over 16.
> > > >
> > > > as well as other posts on that same webpage, I see a consistent 
> > > > objection to rape regardless of the age of the victim, and I
> > > > see public contrition for changing a view he held which he now
> > > > views as wrong. Had we followed your censorious recommendations
> > > > back then (to either "shut up" or to "get a female FSF
> > > > colleague to censor all his comments pertaining to women before
> > > > these comments go public") we might not have been able to read 
> > > > https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong)
> > > >  
> > > > today and we'd lack any principled claim on free speech.
> > > >
> > > > Those who choose to conflate Stallman's views with those of the
> > > > FSF or the GNU Project seem to me to be either making a mistake
> > > > in that conflation or be opportunistic (possibly virtue
> > > > signaling).
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> > > > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> > > > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > libreplanet-discuss mailing list
> > > libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
> > > https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
> > 
> > -- 
> > Leah Rowe <info@minifree.org>
> > Company Director & Libreboot developer
> > https://minifree.org/ https://libreboot.org/
> > 
> > Do you know you have rights?
> > The right to privacy, free speech, the right to read
> > and the right to learn. The right not to be spied on
> > and censored by the government.
> > 
> > Defend freedom. Use free (free as in freedom) software.
> > Spread freedom. Tell everyone you know about it!
> > https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
> > 
> > Minifree Ltd, trading as Ministry of Freedom.
> > Registered in England, registration No. 9361826
> > VAT Registration No. GB202190462
> > Minifree Ltd, 19 Hilton Road, Canvey Island
> > Essex SS8 9QA, United Kingdom
> > United Kingdom
> 
> 
> -- 
> Leah Rowe <info@minifree.org>
> Company Director & Libreboot developer
> https://minifree.org/ https://libreboot.org/
> 
> Do you know you have rights?
> The right to privacy, free speech, the right to read
> and the right to learn. The right not to be spied on
> and censored by the government.
> 
> Defend freedom. Use free (free as in freedom) software.
> Spread freedom. Tell everyone you know about it!
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
> 
> Minifree Ltd, trading as Ministry of Freedom.
> Registered in England, registration No. 9361826
> VAT Registration No. GB202190462
> Minifree Ltd, 19 Hilton Road, Canvey Island
> Essex SS8 9QA, United Kingdom
> United Kingdom


-- 
Leah Rowe <info@minifree.org>
Company Director & Libreboot developer
https://minifree.org/ https://libreboot.org/

Do you know you have rights?
The right to privacy, free speech, the right to read
and the right to learn. The right not to be spied on
and censored by the government.

Defend freedom. Use free (free as in freedom) software.
Spread freedom. Tell everyone you know about it!
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Minifree Ltd, trading as Ministry of Freedom.
Registered in England, registration No. 9361826
VAT Registration No. GB202190462
Minifree Ltd, 19 Hilton Road, Canvey Island
Essex SS8 9QA, United Kingdom
United Kingdom

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