|
| From: | Johnny Merrill |
| Subject: | Re: [libreplanet-discuss] libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 72, Issue 8 |
| Date: | Wed, 3 Feb 2016 12:54:55 -0800 |
Send libreplanet-discuss mailing list submissions to
libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
libreplanet-discuss-request@libreplanet.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
libreplanet-discuss-owner@libreplanet.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of libreplanet-discuss digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: List of free as in freedom programming language (aurelien)
2. Re: List of free as in freedom programming language (Fabio Pesari)
3. Re: List of free as in freedom programming language (Koz Ross)
4. Re: List of free as in freedom programming language (aurelien)
5. Re: List of free as in freedom programming language (aurelien)
6. Re: List of free as in freedom programming language (aurelien)
7. Re: List of free as in freedom programming language (Koz Ross)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:04:03 +0100
From: aurelien <aurelien@hackers.camp>
To: Alexander Berntsen <alexander@plaimi.net>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
programming language
Message-ID: <87io25muh8.fsf@hackers.camp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Alexander Berntsen <alexander@plaimi.net> writes:
> On 03/02/16 19:59, aurelien wrote:
>> Is there a list of free as in freedom programming language?
> Programming languages are not software, so you'll have to be a bit
> more specific as to what freedoms you mean.
Sorry, I was thinking that programming language are under license like software.
So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see it
becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another one?
--
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 818 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.libreplanet.org/archive/html/libreplanet-discuss/attachments/20160203/511f5b72/attachment.pgp>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 21:25:01 +0100
From: Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org>
To: aurelien <aurelien@hackers.camp>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
programming language
Message-ID: <56B2621D.6010508@gnu.org">56B2621D.6010508@gnu.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
On 02/03/2016 09:04 PM, aurelien wrote:
> Sorry, I was thinking that programming language are under license like software.
>
> So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see it
> becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another one?
Well, for starters I would avoid languages tied to specific proprietary
platforms like Swift, even when their implementation is free, and those
languages whose official implementations have some proprietary parts
(like D, whose backend for DMD is nonfree), because that shows just a
plain disregard for the community, if anything.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:24:13 +1300
From: Koz Ross <koz.ross@retro-freedom.nz>
To: aurelien <aurelien@hackers.camp>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
programming language
Message-ID: <20160204092413.17a84073@Emi>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
> So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see
> it becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another
> one?
Let's be a bit more specific here. There are several potential sources
of nonfreedom in a language:
- - The language's standard (or specification) may be nonfree.
- - The language's compiler or interpreter may be nonfree.
- - The language's toolchain may contain nonfree things.
There are languages which are not affected by any of these things
(Guile, for example), there are languages which fail in some places,
but not others (for example, Dlang), and there are languages which fail
in all three (although this is exceedingly rare these days).
I would say that as free software supporters, the last two are the most
concerning - a nonfree spec or standard isn't something we tend to
worry about as much (since the *C* standard is technically nonfree, but
I don't see anyone in our community calling for us to stop using it).
- --
Koz Ross <koz.ross@retro-freedom.nz>
www.retro-freedom.nz
If you aren't using GPG, you should be!
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en. ***
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html for why. ***
Proud member of the Open Wireless Movement. Find out more at
https://openwireless.org/ ***
Proud member of Peers, at http://peers.community/ . We grow freedom.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2
iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJWsmHtAAoJEJARVr/lAw1AvXMH+QGor39wxywd1XhSoCPXy0Ng
kH/WCaA4wTxUswXbFNCRQyGzz+yRhxN6GwE26iYp65gW3hxeW/9i2L1zxpo4tt/X
o/7f/d7nHPzf8zn4hFayE853ARdvZK+MFVGw68JJYqjnGUiXhDiYccZbnAlOGtLX
NzK/DHGUB8JHx8FK/DL4zcBEz5D9Gi3gezkUGjfDdbZ/1omkzo6HrF6za8FJE1CE
YAl5ZBNeZ9oQzBSDY2qfT9t1izySVq1qKh1cstMYm9aecqQlYhdBlFcwvn+Lni4g
xezkQ/9CLPVqIy/7+2k24Luyd4eJ+vbvf0hp+hzoM3KSTFcdxA8dDuVl//7vZWo=
=xWII
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:30:48 +0100
From: aurelien <aurelien@hackers.camp>
To: Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
programming language
Message-ID: <87d1sdmt8n.fsf@hackers.camp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org> writes:
> On 02/03/2016 09:04 PM, aurelien wrote:
>> Sorry, I was thinking that programming language are under license like software.
>>
>> So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see it
>> becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another one?
>
> Well, for starters I would avoid languages tied to specific proprietary
> platforms like Swift, even when their implementation is free, and those
> languages whose official implementations have some proprietary parts
> (like D, whose backend for DMD is nonfree), because that shows just a
> plain disregard for the community, if anything.
So it is possible to make difference between programming language.
Maybe it should be great to have a table to help people.
Like:
__________________________________________
Swift|proprietary implementations|...|...|
C
...
--
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 818 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.libreplanet.org/archive/html/libreplanet-discuss/attachments/20160203/7d0bc31f/attachment.pgp>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:39:55 +0100
From: aurelien <aurelien@hackers.camp>
To: Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
programming language
Message-ID: <877filmstg.fsf@hackers.camp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
aurelien <aurelien@hackers.camp> writes:
> Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> On 02/03/2016 09:04 PM, aurelien wrote:
>>> Sorry, I was thinking that programming language are under license like software.
>>>
>>> So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see it
>>> becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another one?
>>
>> Well, for starters I would avoid languages tied to specific proprietary
>> platforms like Swift, even when their implementation is free, and those
>> languages whose official implementations have some proprietary parts
>> (like D, whose backend for DMD is nonfree), because that shows just a
>> plain disregard for the community, if anything.
>
> So it is possible to make difference between programming language.
>
> Maybe it should be great to have a table to help people.
>
> Like:
>
> + as says Kos Ros
>> - The language's standard (or specification) may be nonfree.
>> - The language's compiler or interpreter may be nonfree.
>> - The language's toolchain may contain nonfree things.
_____________________________________________________
Language|implementations|standard|compiler|toolchain|
Swift |proprietary | | | |
C | | | | |
Guile |free |free |free |free |
Go | | | | |
C++ | | | | |
C# | | | | |
.net | | | | |
--
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 818 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.libreplanet.org/archive/html/libreplanet-discuss/attachments/20160203/b0d9af1a/attachment.pgp>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2016 21:43:53 +0100
From: aurelien <aurelien@hackers.camp>
To: Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org>
Cc: libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
programming language
Message-ID: <8737t9msmu.fsf@hackers.camp>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
aurelien <aurelien@hackers.camp> writes:
> aurelien <aurelien@hackers.camp> writes:
>
>> Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>>> On 02/03/2016 09:04 PM, aurelien wrote:
>>>> Sorry, I was thinking that programming language are under license like software.
>>>>
>>>> So we can learn any programming language without risk in time to see it
>>>> becoming more (close, proprietary, restricted ...) than another one?
>>>
>>> Well, for starters I would avoid languages tied to specific proprietary
>>> platforms like Swift, even when their implementation is free, and those
>>> languages whose official implementations have some proprietary parts
>>> (like D, whose backend for DMD is nonfree), because that shows just a
>>> plain disregard for the community, if anything.
>>
>> So it is possible to make difference between programming language.
>>
>> Maybe it should be great to have a table to help people.
>>
>> Like:
>>
>
>> + as says Kos Ros
>>> - The language's standard (or specification) may be nonfree.
>>> - The language's compiler or interpreter may be nonfree.
>>> - The language's toolchain may contain nonfree things.
_______________________________________________________
Language |implementations|standard|compiler|toolchain|
Swift |proprietary | | | |
C | | | | |
Guile |free |free |free |free |
Go | | | | |
C++ | | | | |
C# | | | | |
.net | | | | |
Python | | | | |
Emacs-lisp | | | | |
Lisp | | | | |
--
Aur?lien DESBRI?RES
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 818 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.libreplanet.org/archive/html/libreplanet-discuss/attachments/20160203/1d40a2e0/attachment.pgp>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2016 09:50:20 +1300
From: Koz Ross <koz.ross@retro-freedom.nz>
To: aurelien <aurelien@hackers.camp>
Cc: Fabio Pesari <fabiop@gnu.org>, libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
Subject: Re: [libreplanet-discuss] List of free as in freedom
programming language
Message-ID: <20160204095020.4882565a@Emi>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
Fabio: I consider the platform part of the toolchain. However, you *do*
raise a valid point that I omitted - whether the language can run on
free OSes. While it is *exceedingly* rare these days, another potential
source of nonfreedom in a programming language is not being able to run
on GNU/Linux (in the sense that there's no compiler or toolchain
support for it).
It's also worth mentioning that a language might have free components,
but those may be second-class citizens. Dlang has two free software
compilers (GDC and LDC), but they're both behind the mainline in terms
of features and are basically ignored by the entire Dlang toolchain,
both from the community that makes said tools and the communities that
support them (for example, Flycheck has syntax checking *only* via dmd,
the proprietary compiler).
- --
Koz Ross <koz.ross@retro-freedom.nz>
www.retro-freedom.nz
If you aren't using GPG, you should be!
https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/en. ***
Please don't send me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html for why. ***
Proud member of the Open Wireless Movement. Find out more at
https://openwireless.org/ ***
Proud member of Peers, at http://peers.community/ . We grow freedom.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2
iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJWsmgMAAoJEJARVr/lAw1AHwUH/0viZmovi8LhqyIuOhJVwDrg
d9XA0LrCTBdbOLbb3JtM1YidoN2/8PCM6TlH+Aa9VCfm9Ql/1T6uXoHABX5+RxfC
QvgTBEfTZu05UZUQTjZA6C/cmu1HZSIQopxaRH9kF2hi4V8Y9TaZOGDBAwwT+oR4
/WQ/66us0neDmQeSO95J7EChpAqjMv4UqOb2nh4Wi5pLkC3P7aFD7GSuUDLX4y6C
YADKzoqF+wVUZgK8W/R+Tu4QeZVxOCEaSVymSVu+87QsOb6QX64mFbrUCeNF/APS
gTuz/Qv3X0eQixfRkI9fzUVcHATe+xP9TO4htC/o83DyPQDHomPl94DorFfTYS4=
=63MD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
libreplanet-discuss mailing list
libreplanet-discuss@libreplanet.org
https://lists.libreplanet.org/mailman/listinfo/libreplanet-discuss
End of libreplanet-discuss Digest, Vol 72, Issue 8
**************************************************
| [Prev in Thread] | Current Thread | [Next in Thread] |