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Re: C++

From: olafBuddenhagen
Subject: Re: C++
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:36:10 +0100
User-agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05)


On Thu, Nov 05, 2009 at 06:42:25AM +0100, Bas Wijnen wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 12:30:11AM +0100, address@hidden
> wrote:

> > Organising things isn't hiding complexity. It's managing complexity
> > at best.
> Whatever you like to call it.  But with this definition, I don't think
> I actually want to hide any complexity.  In the end, I want to be in
> control of everything, so it must still be there in a form that I can
> change.

My point is that IMHO C++ only limits flexibility, without really taking
anything off my mind. I have to do all the same things most of the time,
just writing them in a manner that makes it less obvious what is really

Higher-level languages are ones that free me from managing certain
things by hand.

> > In either case, the fact that few people are helping now, doesn't
> > mean it wouldn't be even fewer if we used a less common language.
> > While I can't actually prove it, common sense tells me it's pretty
> > obvious.
> I feel that the people who want to help wouldn't be discouraged by
> seeing a few new syntax features in code that otherwise looks like C.

Well, for me at least, C++ *would* be a major turnoff, considering how
ugly it is. (Again, I mostly mean syntax here, not even my fundamental
dislike of the pseudo-OO.)

However, I was thinking about actual higher-level languages here. It
should be obvious by now that I don't consider C++ a useful option to
muse about.

> > However, I'm not talking about runtime features, nor explicit code
> > generation. I'm talking about the type inference implemented by some
> > languages (mostly functional ones), allowing the compiler to
> > automatically instance any function for the types it is actually
> > used on,
> But that's exactly what templates do (and what C is incapable of).

Eh? While I'm not really familiar with templates (they didn't exist when
I was learning C++), my understanding is that I have to write a template
instead of a "normal" function, and then explicitely ask for specific
functions being instanciated from this template for the types I need.
This explicit template plus instanciation feels like a kludge to me,
when it is perfectly possible (in other languages) for the compiler to
figure out the necessary types on its own.


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