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Re: address@hidden: Re: rename in cvs]

From: Sam Steingold
Subject: Re: address@hidden: Re: rename in cvs]
Date: 11 Oct 2001 18:16:55 -0400
User-agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.0.107

> * In message <address@hidden>
> * On the subject of "Re: address@hidden: Re: rename in cvs]"
> * Sent on Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:51:02 -0400 (EDT)
> * Honorable address@hidden (Greg A. Woods) writes:
> [ On , October 11, 2001 at 15:48:02 (-0400), Sam Steingold wrote: ]
> > Subject: Re: address@hidden: Re: rename in cvs]
> >
> > But calling "cvs add/rm" "the right way" instead of adding "cvs mv" is
> > not correct - exactly because it leads us to the situation when CVS is
> > expected to deny the truth.
> You need to understand the much deeper issues of trying to include
> rename information in a change control tool, You really cannot add
> such a feature to a file-based change tracking tool -- doing so takes
> you far away from what CVS is.


> > why?  why can't "cvs mv" rename the *,v file?
> Nope -- no file-based change control tool can.  You have to add a
> whole mess of meta-data on top, and the more you think about all the
> corner cases and side effects, the deeper the pile gets.  Soon you end
> up building a system that's completely the opposite of a file-based
> change control tool -- i.e. one that constructs files out of sets of
> changes that are probably stored in a more sophisticated database than
> any unix-like filesystem can ever be on its own.

why?  why can't "cvs mv" just rename the *,v file?
let me repeat:

        why can't "cvs mv" just rename the *,v file?

> > > The effect on the revision tracking of such a grand renaming is really
> > > no different than changing all the white space or indentation inside
> > > of every file.
> > 
> > I do not buy this.
> > renaming a file does not change it's contents.
> but the EFFECT (on the change management process) is the same!!!!!!!


> > Emacs has `vc-rename-file' and it supports both RCS and SCCS.
> > Yes, this might not be native operations, but _this can be done_.
> I think you don't understand the larger issues here.  What
> vc-rename-file does breaks all kinds of things in the larger SCM
> picture!  It is a cheap hack that wise people would only use in very
> limited circumstances.

I am not saying I will be doing "cvs mv" twice a day.
I have felt the need for it about twice in my life.
The fact that CVS cannot do it is still haunting me.

> > Thus, of all the tools accessible to me, only CVS refuses to rename
> > files.
> CVS refuses to rename files because the CVS designers were aware of
> all the deeper issues and they didn't want to create a situation worse
> than the current "alternative".

what can be worse?!

cut the socialist crap.  remember the 2nd amendment, give me the damned
gun and explain me that I should be careful not to shoot myself -- but
let _me_ decide what I want to do.

> > Would you like to use a file system which lacked rename(2) syscall 
> well as a matter of fact the rename(2) call is a recent addition....

> BUT, You're trying to compare totally unrelated things here -- it
> might look so simple on the surface, but when you have to keep track
> of such operations over time requires much more than a simple rename
> command!

okay - so don't keep track!  just rename the darn *,v files!

yes, rename then would be global - all branches will be affected.
so issue a warning!

those who can be hurt by this will not use this.

> > yes of course!  but the mistake has been done already, long ago, and I
> > wish I could undo it now.
> be careful what you wish for -- you may only create a worse nightmare.

bull.  I did a manual rename of *,v files in the CVS repository one.
I have never had any problems with that.
Everything works as expected.
No problems.

> If I were you I would break from the past and start fresh.

Don't be ridiculous.
I have users to support.

Sam Steingold (
Support Israel's right to defend herself! <>
Read what the Arab leaders say to their people on <>
Live Lisp and prosper.

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